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Author Topic: Restocking My Motor Inventory  (Read 873 times)

Online Ken Culbertson

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Restocking My Motor Inventory
« on: March 04, 2020, 01:41:13 PM »
I am starting down the long road of replacing/rebuilding my "weapons of choice" and starting with the motors.  I lost 6, all Cobra's.  2 @ 2820/12, 2 @ 3520/14 and 1 2826/12.  I like the Cobra but I am not sure that I have the right sizes and since my insurance doesn't require an exact replacement, it might be wise to find out.  The 282x's powered a 50oz Twister and 52oz Nobler.  The 3520's powered a 65oz 710 sq" PA and a 72oz 690 sq" Classic. (All weights w/battery)

Next is the Timer/ESC.  I am comfortable with the Huben/Castle combination I was using.  The constant RPM is to my liking.  The only place I really wish it were different is the last leg of the hourglass but then we all probably wish we had dive brakes on that one!  I have watched the more advanced timers causing a lot of tinker time and flat spots in maneuvers when they don't kick in just right.  However, if there is something in the same price range as say a Castle 75/Huben combination and it does not require an electrical/aeronautical engineering degree to manage I am open to it.  I have seen video of one with a LED that blinks at you when it is about to quit.  I would like that.  Electric is quiet but sometimes it is too quiet, like at a contest when a squadron of rat racers takes off on the next circle in the middle of your pattern.  I blew a landing last year over that one.

Any thoughts/advice will be appreciated.  I want to order a couple of mounts from Okie Air to design around.  Knowing what will go in them helps.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flookaside.fbsbx.com%2Flookaside%2Fcrawler%2Fmedia%2F%3Fmedia_id%3D2231598790466145&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fquotesmasteryoda%2F&tbnid=LFhZO0eNMdkCNM&vet=10CJMBEDMorQFqFwoTCMDdjvfVgegCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAC..i&docid=gJxm9xUkSdS7mM&w=960&h=507&q=yoda%20quotes&ved=0CJMBEDMorQFqFwoTCMDdjvfVgegCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAC

 Ken
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2020, 03:32:52 PM »
I have seen video of one with a LED that blinks at you when it is about to quit.

If Howard Rush was flying, that was a Tim's Universal Timer you were looking at, using Howard's FAI program which blinks the light once per lap time (more or less) so that you can adjust where the motor cuts off relative to the wind by maneuvering to lengthen or shorten a lap time.  I don't know if anyone else does a warning light, but I wouldn't know.  It's designed to be fed by an Igor Burger timer which it hijacks at certain points in the pattern, but it's also designed to run like a Hubin if there's no Igor timer talking to it.

I'm not actively marketing them, but if you're willing to pester me I'm willing to be polite back until I actually get some built.

As a plus, you can run Howard's AMA program and use a cutoff loop, instead.

If you decide to go with a Hubin setup, ask here and I'll post a circuit for driving a set of LEDs from the motor wires -- that won't tell you beforehand that the motor will cut out, but it will tell you that the motor's going and you'll see where it stops.
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2020, 12:08:28 AM »
There are a couple of good TUTs in a pawnshop in Dallas. Look for a purple circuit board about an inch square.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2020, 05:30:01 AM »
There are a couple of good TUTs in a pawnshop in Dallas. Look for a purple circuit board about an inch square.
That's almost as bad as burning the flag! 
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2020, 06:40:11 AM »
I don't know if anyone else does a warning light, but I wouldn't know.  It's designed to be fed by an Igor Burger timer which it hijacks at certain points in the pattern, but it's also designed to run like a Hubin if there's no Igor timer talking to it.

My timer does not have LED, but I know there are several European which does. Probably not known in USA. Usually those used on indoors, because indoor fall like a stone when motor stops.

I did not make LEDs because of 3 reasons -
1/ there is 0 Bytes free in my PIC chip (that is why it is nr. 1)   VD~
2/ I tried to minimize harware - the first version was sigle chip connected to standard sensor, so no place for power LED
3/ we have stop watches, so I can manage landing to any place in circle relative to the judges and wind, because I know immediatelly after 4 leaf where is motor going to stop, so I can fly higher or lower to make landing point where I want :- ))

But I know there are many people wanting leds, so I have separate timer with open colector transistow which can be synchronized with main timer (like your TUT, but paralell, not in serie), so LED can be inslalled like lego stone   S?P

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2020, 07:21:02 AM »
That's almost as bad as burning the flag!

What's wrong with purple PCBs!  Colorist!

1/ there is 0 Bytes free in my PIC chip (that is why it is nr. 1)   VD~

What?  You should always have space free, so that when some Marketing guy promises a new feature to a customer too big to be ignored, there's room to fit it in.

The timer in parallel is a good idea, given that you time everything from power-on (unlike the Hubin, which has its own button).
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2020, 07:34:12 AM »
I told my marketing guy that I will release my timer after FULL debuging and I am not going to make any updates, because it does all what is has to do and it does not do what it should not do ... means it is FINISHED.

And he understood, because he is old school guy and he does not want to sale alfa, beta, gama etc. versions for test at customers like we see it nowadays. That is reason why I did not do any update 10 years long  8) 

 VD~ VD~ VD~

Online John Rist

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2020, 09:58:07 AM »
Next is the Timer/ESC.  I am comfortable with the Huben/Castle combination I was using.  The constant RPM is to my liking.  The only place I really wish it were different is the last leg of the hourglass but then we all probably wish we had dive brakes on that one!  I have watched the more advanced timers causing a lot of tinker time and flat spots in maneuvers when they don't kick in just right.  However, if there is something in the same price range as say a Castle 75/Huben combination and it does not require an electrical/aeronautical engineering degree to manage I am open to it.  I have seen video of one with a LED that blinks at you when it is about to quit.  I would like that.  Electric is quiet but sometimes it is too quiet, like at a contest when a squadron of rat racers takes off on the next circle in the middle of your pattern.  I blew a landing last year over that one.

Any thoughts/advice will be appreciated.  I want to order a couple of mounts from Okie Air to design around.  Knowing what will go in them helps.

 Ken

To answer the question on the timer/ESC.  I have had really good luck with the KR timer driving a Trunigy Plush ESC.  Read my post posted down a ways on this BB.   https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/how-my-kr-timer-works/   In this post Keith Renecle ( the KR timer dude)  has some good comments on how his timer controls RPMs.

The advantage of this setup is that it is simple to field program and it works with most cheep ESC.

Another advantage of this setup is safety.  The motor cutoff is based on RPMs not current draw.  If you nose over during a takeoff the motor stops instantly when the prop strikes the ground.  This has saved motors and ESC for me.

In you post you asked about motor cutoff warning.  This is also built into KR timer. Motor slows down for a second or so and then goes wide open for 5 seconds before quitting.  This gives you a end of time warning and good air speed for a landing.

Now for the down side.  You don't have any data logging that the high end speed controllers provide.  Also hardware setup is little harder.  The KR timer has a brown wire that has to be attached to one of the motor leads.  This lead lets the KR timer know the motor RPMs.   In the past I have soldered this lead to one of the motor bullet connectors.  However I have found that if you strip some insulation from the wire it can just be stuffed in the male half of the connector allowing it to be sandwiched in place when the female half of the connector is plugged in.

KR timers come from RSM.       http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index.php

Trunigy Plesh ESC come from Hobby King       https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-plush-32-60a-speed-controller-w-bec.html?queryID=&objectID=82094&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products


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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2020, 10:04:12 AM »
What's wrong with purple PCBs!  Colorist!
I was referring to a TUT being in a Pawn Shop.  Purple is OK but putting it in a Pawn Shop is heresy.  Is there no respect for innovation any more.  Oh, the humanity... LL~

Ken
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2020, 10:27:23 AM »
To answer the question on the timer/ESC......
John, this sounds like the compromise I am looking for.  The only thing I did not like about the FM-9 was the lack of prop strike positive cutoff.  It does the end of flight the same way as the KR except I think it resumes the fixed rpm vs going full bore.

The main reason I wanted an LED was noise.  When there is no competing noise going on you can still hear the RPM dip and most of the time feel it but when you have a 4 plane rat race going on the next circle you can't hear your plane at all.
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Online John Rist

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Re: Restocking My Motor Inventory
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2020, 01:46:55 PM »
John, this sounds like the compromise I am looking for.  The only thing I did not like about the FM-9 was the lack of prop strike positive cutoff.  It does the end of flight the same way as the KR except I think it resumes the fixed rpm vs going full bore.

The main reason I wanted an LED was noise.  When there is no competing noise going on you can still hear the RPM dip and most of the time feel it but when you have a 4 plane rat race going on the next circle you can't hear your plane at all.

The drop in RPMs before cutoff is extreme (although short).  You can't miss it.  And for a fact when the motor comes back on line after the 2 second end of flight  warning  It goes full bore for 5 seconds.   This is, is of course at the end of the flight so the battery has run down so the boost over set RPMs is modest.  However it does give a nice boost in speed to help with a landing.   Like I said read my post on "How my KR Timer Works" to get a good feel on what to expect from a KR timer.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 05:42:06 PM by John Rist »
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