stunthanger.com
Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Igor Burger on November 03, 2010, 04:13:22 AM
-
I love our postman #^
-
uhm, is it control line ?
-
I'm sure it will be CL - Check out Igors other posts on his indoor control line models......
-
I love our postman #^
I shall attempt to deal with this postman, rather than the one who confiscates my mail to you.
-
I think this answers all :-)
-
first Christmas night :)
everything done by CA glue for styro
... may be too detailed, but I think not everyone knows how to do indoors ...
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
O.K...........so where does this "postman" come from??
Keith R
-
From Rakovnik, close to Prague :- )))) ... I conviced him, that this model must be great for both r/c and also c/l indoor stunt ... so he did a kit for r/c al c/l ... this is test version for "debugging" ... we will see :-)))
-
Hi Igor,
How much outboard bias angle do the landing gear and other side-force-generators have?
later,
Dean
-
That older model had ~20 degrees fuselage out on lines .. otherwise all parts are symetric and straight. (beside 4 degrees downthrust)
I will add all such data later, when I come to those details, like LO position, CG etc.
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
LO is installed 15 degrees back from the CG which is at 20% of wing
means
chord of the wiing is 10"
CG is at 2" station
and LO is at 6"
-
.
-
.
model weight in this moment (without tip weight and power train) is 82g
-
That older model had ~20 degrees fuselage out on lines .. otherwise all parts are symetric and straight. (beside 4 degrees downthrust)
I will add all such data later, when I come to those details, like LO position, CG etc.
Sounds good Igor,
I was thinking along the lines of keeping the wings and horzontal tail be square/tangent/symmetric with respect to the circle while still having the SFGs and/or fuselage generate line tension.
later,
Dean
-
All - fuselage, landing gears and also motor are aout 15 degrees, so all of that gives line tension. The speed 5s/lap on 5m long lines gives only half of necessary line tension, so the rest comes from that extreme yaw. The side area front of CG is designed so that the yaw is kept constant even with rudder in neutral. Proper side trim (lo guid is fixed and not movable) is achieved only by positioning of those aerodynamical brakers, or motor to fuselage offset. Typically all of that coul be in neutral, but it is still possible to do small changes.
-
Postman sent me new picture from Santa's factory ... this winter is going to be funny :- )))))))))))))
-
installation
Motor has downthrust 4 degrees
CG is at 5cm = 2" from LE (including battery)
Tip weight is 12g=0.42oz
final weight 210g
lines 5m
motor python 60 (kv=1400 Ri=150mohm I0=0.8A weight 32g)
Battery 800mAh for ~ 4minutes
prop GWS SF 10x4.7"
4300rpm
ESC spin 11A
-
Hey Igor:
What speed controller do you use? Does it have a gov'nor, or are you just depending on lots of drag for that, or what?
Have you tried side force generators on the wings, instead of yaw? It seems like you could get some decent side thrust that way, maybe with less drag...
My RC club now has access to a gym in winter, and would probably put up with a bit of control line flying -- but I don't think I'll get anything made this year.
-
ESC is Jeti Spin11 with governor ... later I will use my active rpm control
may be it is no visible, but almost everything beside the wing is side force generator (fuselage, landing gears, spurs, motor out) ... ;D
BTW drag is not problem ... or better it is, because it is too low, so that is reason for those braking tabs on wing VD~
-
Hello,
Very nice model
when and where will be the kit on sale? we want to build two for a show
This one is the same model as the one in modelsky web?
:)
-
Alberto, this is copy of my 2 years old c/l model. It comes from Czech maker (Prague), all dimmensians are from my model, colors are "derived" :- ))))) from Italian GeeBee r3 design. It is designed especially for C/L, but I have seen version for R/C. That what you see are first pieces which I got to "debug" the kit. I hope that the kit will be available soon. Week or two. If you need it to Spain, it will be probably possible, but usually we buy such thing by personal contact. Shipping is not so easy (read not so cheap).
BTW can you give me a link to that modelsky model? I have no idea what you mean.
-
oops, i made made a mistake, this is the web
http://www.rcmodely.sk/zobrazclanok.php?id=300
I think we will build them from the plan, you are right, shipping would be more expensive than the kit.
thank you
-
Yes, that is exactly plan used for that model, with some small modiffications resulting from practice. That kit makse sense only in case that you want pretty model (colors are most expensive part of the kit), or if you do not want to play with that hardware.
If I remember well, that plan has somewhere some mistake, but you will see.
-
OK, I will check the plan before starting.
only one more question, what are the measurements of the bellcrank? it looks quite big
thanks
-
classic 10cm (4") ... it must work with "no line tension" ... negative will be even better ;D
-
Is the model a biplane, triplane or even a quadraplane?? S?P
Keith R
-
3 plane from side to side and also 3 plane from top to the bottom VD~
-
Hmmmmmmm............maybe I should try a RED BARON....Fokker Triplane?? :!
-
Red baron has too small side area. ... but you can have two of them, one wing vertical, one horizontal LL~
-
Maybe you are right about the side area. The airfoils might also have a little too much camber. I read Dave Fitzgerald's "De-Tails" article again, and it could also be that the stab has a lttle too much positive incidence. Mmmmmmmmm......... maybe if I turned the middle wing upside down, it could cancel out some of the camber problem?? The prop looks about scale. I'll work on the side area. ;D
-
Christmas finally arrived here too :)
My model weights 180-185g complete, we will test them soon ;D
Thank you for your support Igor
-
%^@
looks good ... and light ... what is the motor? battery? I cannot imagine where to save 20g.
-
I think most of the weight savings came from the material, it is made from "depron s" which is lighter than usual (from about 140g to 120g each plate)
The battery is:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10868
And the motor, this has surprised me, well made and powerful, we will see how it performs.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7520
The esc is cc phoenix
-
Hi all.
And this is mine ..
The other half of the Spanish gee bee team. ;D
Mine weighs 195 grams ... the diference in weight is in the timer (mine is bigger).
-
They have flown!
We had a great time, the first wingover was terrific, sooo slow :o
But later we flew some complete schedules, it is really funny...
With air brakes mine was flying at 5,6s/lap, 5s without them, but it always kept the lines "tight"
It took only 350 mah for 4 min, so I think the batteries could be even smaller. Everything was barely warm, no problem at all.
Happy Christmas #^
-
>>>but it always kept the lines "tight"<<<
:- ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I know exactly what you mean, you must just believe it will make it ... does not matter that your reflexes force you to run :-))))))))))))))))) ... hard to explain without trying ... so it looks you gave yourself great Cristmass gift #^
BTW any video?
-
Wow...wow...
It is really very slow... :o
The wingover afraid to enter ... but when you've done it once .... goodbye fear ... is incredible ...
The vertical eights ... no words ... sloooooow very sloooooow ... <= #^
Thanks Igor ... yes..it is a good christmas gift.
Regards
-
The video is ready!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTeLx5lsPtU
Igor, have you considered moving the battery outside (maybe to the right gear strut) instead of adding lead to the tip?
Regards :)
-
I see you had really fun at christmass. Another session on NY? VD~
But I think it is somehow slow, I think you have to keep at lap times somewhere 5 or 4.9. What is the TO rpm? I had it somewhere at 4600 with prop GWS 10x4.7.
Yo will need also little more trimming, I would suggest to play little with rudder, I ended at little INBOARD rudder offset ~10mm, but it will depend on lines diameter, I see you use thicker wires (compared to my)
-
:) Not new year but sunday...
we were flying at 4300rpm, withouth airbrakes it flew a 5s, but on downsides it gains too much speed, i feel better with them. Maybe with active control... ;D
we will try with some inboard rudder.
we use lines made of dynema, it is line for fishing, with some kevlar, I will look for thinner ones. What lines do you use?
Regards :)
-
I have "Spiderwire" 0.14mm ... yes, I used to fly at 4300 without brakers, but it needs some 300 rpm more with them.
-
hi Igor,
That little set up looks really neat.
My son got his/our (we've been doing all this CLPA stuff as a team since he joined me in it) first foray into electric C/L flight yesterday in the mail. It isn't the "Rolls Royce" of set ups, but he found it at about 1/3 the cost of retail, so it was "allowable" for the budget. An ARC version of a OTS plane I have been flying in OTS competition. Consequentially, it will be a source of slight comparison. And I got to "give him and extra Christmas present", so to speak. ;D Now it's off into the wild blue yonder realm of ESCs, 4S, EBS, etc., etc,....... and I thought learning Portuguese was tough.
Depending on how the weather goes, we will hopefully get to fly it in the very near future.
Thank you to all you guys who are pioneering this category of our hobby/sport.
Bill
-
#^ #^ #^
how do i get one in the USA?
#^ #^ n~
-
Jim, the kit is available (produced in Czech) I think it will be difficult and expensive to send one piece oversea, but for sure, you can use knife and foam plate, corel drawing is available :-)) ... Alberto did it the same way.
Or Try to convert some F3AI (F3P) model for C/L also not so complicated. The prick is proper power train, and little bit different trimmimg.
-
Hi all
Here is the plan...
http://www.jpaeromodels.com/planosvuelocircular/Electricos.htm
Aaaaaadios
-
Thanks Igor and Jose! H^^ H^^ H^^
-
Guys from Hradec Kralove (Czech) make probably forst indoor stunt contest 26-27 feb. 2011. It will include some workshop, so if anyone is close enough, just come, I expect lot of fun :- )))))
-
Bravo!!! to our friends in Hradec Kralove.
Dean P.
-
2550 km and 22 hours driving distance us ... hmmm. It is tempting. ??? ;D
How many gee bee models is predicted to fly in competition?
Aaaaadios
-
Jose, distance is not problem for this event ... you can fly by airplane and bulid model evening before contest VD~
no, realy ... I have no idea, they plan to make also beginner class and local semiscales ... everything could be the same model as the difference is little modified profile of fuselage and wing area :- )))))))
I know right now aproximatly 10 modes here in Slovakia and Czech, plus some in poland and austria. I expect most of them will come, but you know this kind of model can disapear in second (as any othem model) but also apear in just one evening, so nobody knows, we will see :-))) ... however you are right, traveling 2500km is not fun and costs money.
-
Well...10 models is very good. #^
In the future, in my club, we would like to organize a bee gee cup ... I'm promoting indoor acrobatics in Spain ...
Is in Spanish ::) ... but... this is my article in my blog.
http://adarvueltas.blogspot.com/2011/01/gee-bee-r3-un-modelo-de-acrobacia-vc.html
-
2550 km and 22 hours driving distance us ... hmmm. It is tempting. ??? ;D
How many gee bee models is predicted to fly in competition?
Aaaaadios
I drive that far for domestic contests! n~
best regards,
Dean P.
-
Yes, but your country is 15 times bigger than mine ... :P
I live in Madrid, and the longest distance to any point in my country is 700km (400mi) ::)
-
and gallon does not cost 10USD VD~
I have it only 200km and it is another country speaking another language n~
hmm does not matter ... I have 3 other countries in radius of 50km speaking 3 other languages, and 2 of them have border 10km from my house ;D
-
it is going to be serious contest :- ))))))
look the cup:
-
Yes, but your country is 15 times bigger than mine ... :P
I live in Madrid, and the longest distance to any point in my country is 700km (400mi) ::)
Ahora mismo, me estoy muy celoso!
Saludos,
Dean
-
flying under too low ceing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYlEeyy424
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74uqL3_dAw
and over too high ground :- )))))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzB1ul6R3c
(Sorry, I did a mistake and posted this message in wrong thread, so I am posting again and deleting there)
-
... hmmm ... well ... :o
-
Wooowww... %^@ %^@ Impressive.
I thought do something similar.but...he it is a true kamikaze n~
-
And he says he LANDED ;D
cecret is, that he replaced the timer by a R/C receiver and friend helped him to stop motor in proper moment, but anyway ...
-
Hi Igor,
I am jealous! The reasons: I have to drive over 100 miles just to get to a site that is dedicated to C/L flying, and there are only two in my "state"! Both about the same distance from here.
You guys seem to be always having "FUN" and a lot of participation. The scene in that picture doesn't seem to happen around here anymore. People in suits and ties, etc., and enjoying the event. Maybe some clubs in a part of the country I don't know about still have those types of events here. But America seems to have sped up to the point that internet communication is about all that happens outside of the retired guys in Arizona! LOL!!
Either way I would fly there, for that meet, (if I had to money! LOL!!) just to experience it!
Thanks
Bill
-
another one ;D
-
another one ;D
Looks like someone liked my drawing of the DR1. That's wonderful!
Keith R
-
Could someone tell me the thickness of depron you are using for the Gee Bees?
bob branch
-
Hi...
All deprom is 3 mm.
-
So the contest was after all great ... many models, more contestant then we used to have outdoor. Many new c/l people, many of them returned from retirement and also some R/Cs arrived to "try it" again :-)))
I counted aproximately 30 models, 11 F2B contestant and 13 beginners, including 3 juniors.
Probably world first indoor c/l F2B contest? :-))))
-
Igor
Very cool! I finished the airframe on one of your Gee Bees blown up from plans on your web site yesterday. This week I hope to get the power system in and fly next week. Very neat looking bird. Thanks,
bob branch
-
:o 30 models!
I am sure you had a great time :)!
-
;D
-
more pictures from that action
http://picasaweb.google.com/controlline.sk/GeeBeeCupPardubice2011#
-
Hi Igor, Thanks for the pictures. Just two questions please. Who is the old guy with the fuzzy face and red shirt holding the cup? What is in the cup?? S?P Thanks.
Keith R
-
Hmmm .. the cap is empty ... as usual ... I always ask them the same question when I win something (look to attached picture also empty) ... they give me new and new cup, but always empty ??? ;D ;D ;D
and that mysteriouse man? I really do not know. He is invisible, he lives with me home, I see him only sometimes in the mirror (something like vampire, but opposite, invisible in real word, but visible in the mirror), I even stopped shawing, so I do not see that ugly face, but I am surprised, last time I saw him, he did not have beard.
He is on the photo probably because it was camera with a mirror ;D ...
;D ;D ;D
-
Aaaaah..........O.K. now I can see it is you! Maybe if you put some holes in your jeans (very fashionable!) then the organizers would feel sorry for you and put something to drink into the cups! #^
Keth R
-
Holes in jeans? no way, such a fassion is too expensive, I have only those cheap from china ... n1
-
I was thinking that R3 might work outdoors too, maybe built with thicker material, more power and longer lines.
-
Yes, that is exactly plan used for that model, with some small modiffications resulting from practice. That kit makse sense only in case that you want pretty model (colors are most expensive part of the kit), or if you do not want to play with that hardware.
If I remember well, that plan has somewhere some mistake, but you will see.
Igor,
What was the mistake on the plan?
-
OK, I will check the plan before starting.
only one more question, what are the measurements of the bellcrank? it looks quite big
thanks
Alberto,
Do you remember what the mistake on the plan was?
Thanks.
-
I think I found it. The aft locating slot in the lower fuselage for the LG brace is a 1/2 slot too far forward. Also the brace from the LG to the wing needs to be reshaped. It overhangs the LE of the wing.
-
Yes Christ, it was something with landing gears or those braces.
-
Thank you Igor.
Does the model use the 4 degrees of downthrust?
I'm guessing that the elevator pushrod is 2 mm?
-
yes it needs LOT of downthrust, but you will see, simply be prepared to adjust offset depending on prop.
pushrod is 2mm carbon rod which fits to those stoppers with screw ... tube is not good idea because screw will damage it, but if you want it lighter, then you can use tube and fill its end by resin and it will last that pressure
-
yes it needs LOT of downthrust, but you will see, simply be prepared to adjust offset depending on prop.
pushrod is 2mm carbon rod which fits to those stoppers with screw ... tube is not good idea because screw will damage it, but if you want it lighter, then you can use tube and fill its end by resin and it will last that pressure
Great! Thank yopu for the prompt reply Igor.
BTW, congrats on your world's victory.
-
:- )) thanks
-
Igor,
Is there any chance that the Gee Bee will be produced in kit form again as you did in the earlier posts in this thread? If so I would be interested in trying one. Thanks.
-
I do not think only chance I think it is reality ... but I am not proper person to speak to ... I hope proper person will write something soon, because I am sure reading ... :- )))
-
Yes : )
That 's right I am reading and thanks for that...
Now I can post already official web site of Gee Bee! There you can find information and see a little bit surprise, hope you like it : ))
www.indoorgeebee.com
-
%^@ %^@ %^@ ... I wrote it already - color magician : - )))))))))))) ... and now I see also autodeskinventor magician :- )))
when we can start ordering? :- )))))))
-
All - fuselage, landing gears and also motor are aout 15 degrees, so all of that gives line tension. The speed 5s/lap on 5m long lines gives only half of necessary line tension, so the rest comes from that extreme yaw. The side area front of CG is designed so that the yaw is kept constant even with rudder in neutral. Proper side trim (lo guid is fixed and not movable) is achieved only by positioning of those aerodynamical brakers, or motor to fuselage offset. Typically all of that coul be in neutral, but it is still possible to do small changes.
Is the Gee Bee than not straight building , everythign is 15 degrees to the out side ? ot with the 15 degree rake on the lines it flys 15 degrees out ? When I build it should I build it straight with the down thrust and be OK .
-
Is the Gee Bee than not straight building , everythign is 15 degrees to the out side ? ot with the 15 degree rake on the lines it flys 15 degrees out ? When I build it should I build it straight with the down thrust and be OK .
Yes.
-
;D ... little bit late because we have indoor contest right now ... but again - yes
-
;D ... little bit late because we have indoor contest right now ... but again - yes
Good luck at the contest, to you and everybody! Have fun.
-
thankx, yes we had lot of fun ... unfortunately I crashed in last flight ... 10cm before landing ... to the camera which was in the circle ;D ... so for next year I must prepare new model ... and I have two reasons ... the second reason will be clear soon VD~
-
from contest :- ))
all contestants and judges + CD stuff
results:
http://pavel.macek.hk/CL_Calendar/2013/Results/CZE-361.pdf
Paul Winter flew it first time (git model at 8:00 the day of conest starting at 10:00) and he placed 9th ... great ( must be great, he is from Great Britain :-))) )
-
and it was not only GB cup, we had also such famose models like loopings flying B17 ;D
-
Igor , have you ever weighed a airframe ? was wondering what one weighs on average . The one I scratch built weighs 72 grams or 2.5oz .
Jason,
-
No, I never saw problem with weight of the foam. We use even parts with printed UV colors, and it is even heavier. But for info, that model which I built for Paul and John which is without colors, weights 206 grams, tip weight is 12g, battery weights 48g, motor 32g, esc spin 11 15g, prop 7g, active timer 4g, and may be some parts like fixing for battery and "X" for fixing motor can be 3g
... so my empty frame without colors like your now could be somewhere at 85g
my yellow model is 10g heavier (plus color and plus some repairs) and I cannot tell any difference, but you will see
however Tania has much lighter model (even with colors) which is attached on picture, I tried it and it flights very nice, but it is without active motor controll and that makes large difference in weight, but it does not keep speed well, so I would definitelly choose my heavier version
it is difficult to tell you, simply try it and you will see the result, it will certainly help, but I affraid of stifftness.
-
Igor , I am ready to try my new plane but was wanting some advide to set the power up on it . I will be running a turnigy 2204-14t 1400kv motor . with 800mah 2 cell . things to look for are what in the test flights ? looking for things like how hot do the motors get ? is there any smells from the motor I should look for ? can I run a 9" prop on the geeBee or have to stay with 10 " ? Any info you can shine on me would be great Because I am a lone soul with no help to show me H^^
-
I do not know that motor, but that type which we use is 60W motor with kv=1400 and IR=150mohm
9"prop will be too little I think