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Author Topic: Early Christmas :-)))))  (Read 14428 times)

Offline Igor Burger

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Early Christmas :-)))))
« on: November 03, 2010, 04:13:22 AM »
I love our postman  #^


Offline jim gilmore

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 10:24:57 AM »
uhm, is it control line ?

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 01:15:25 PM »
I'm sure it will be CL  - Check out Igors other posts on his indoor control line models......
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 01:36:10 PM »
I love our postman  #^

I shall attempt to deal with this postman, rather than the one who confiscates my mail to you.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 06:15:07 PM »
I think this answers all :-)

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 08:18:12 AM »
first Christmas night  :)

everything done by CA glue for styro

... may be too detailed, but I think not everyone knows how to do indoors ...

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 08:24:54 AM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 08:26:35 AM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 08:28:52 AM »
.

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 10:00:14 AM »
O.K...........so where does this "postman" come from??

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 10:06:05 AM »
From Rakovnik, close to Prague :- ))))  ... I conviced him, that this model must be great for both r/c and also c/l indoor stunt ... so he did a kit for r/c al c/l ...  this is test version for "debugging" ... we will see :-)))

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 11:28:34 AM »
Hi Igor,
How much outboard bias angle do the landing gear and other side-force-generators have?
later,
Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 11:33:50 AM »
That older model had ~20 degrees fuselage out on lines .. otherwise all parts are symetric and straight. (beside 4 degrees downthrust)

I will add all such data later, when I come to those details, like LO position, CG etc.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 03:24:34 PM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 03:25:42 PM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 03:27:34 PM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 03:30:47 PM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 09:30:18 AM »
LO is installed 15 degrees back from the CG which is at 20% of wing

means

chord of the wiing is 10"

CG is at 2" station

and LO is at 6"

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 09:33:11 AM »
.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 09:36:37 AM »
.

model weight in this moment (without tip weight and power train) is 82g

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 12:47:54 PM »
That older model had ~20 degrees fuselage out on lines .. otherwise all parts are symetric and straight. (beside 4 degrees downthrust)

I will add all such data later, when I come to those details, like LO position, CG etc.
Sounds good Igor,
I was thinking along the lines of keeping the wings and horzontal tail be square/tangent/symmetric with respect to the circle while still having the SFGs and/or fuselage generate line tension.
later,
Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 02:21:11 PM »
All - fuselage, landing gears and also motor are aout 15 degrees, so all of that gives line tension. The speed 5s/lap on 5m long lines gives only half of necessary line tension, so the rest comes from that extreme yaw. The side area front of CG is designed so that the yaw is kept constant even with rudder in neutral. Proper side trim (lo guid is fixed and not movable) is achieved only by positioning of those aerodynamical brakers, or motor to fuselage offset. Typically all of that coul be in neutral, but it is still possible to do small changes.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 09:43:32 AM »
Postman sent me new picture from Santa's factory ... this winter is going to be funny :- )))))))))))))

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 10:51:06 AM »
installation

Motor has downthrust 4 degrees
CG is at 5cm = 2" from LE (including battery)
Tip weight is 12g=0.42oz
final weight 210g

lines 5m
motor python 60 (kv=1400 Ri=150mohm I0=0.8A weight 32g)
Battery 800mAh for ~ 4minutes
prop GWS SF 10x4.7"
4300rpm
ESC spin 11A

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 03:29:20 PM »
Hey Igor:

What speed controller do you use?  Does it have a gov'nor, or are you just depending on lots of drag for that, or what?

Have you tried side force generators on the wings, instead of yaw?  It seems like you could get some decent side thrust that way, maybe with less drag...

My RC club now has access to a gym in winter, and would probably put up with a bit of control line flying -- but I don't think I'll get anything made this year.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 03:40:44 PM »
ESC is Jeti Spin11 with governor ... later I will use my active rpm control

may be it is no visible, but almost everything beside the wing is side force generator (fuselage, landing gears, spurs, motor out) ...  ;D

BTW drag is not problem ... or better it is, because it is too low, so that is reason for those braking tabs on wing  VD~

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 11:04:38 AM »
Hello,
Very nice model
when and where will be the kit on sale? we want to build two for a show
This one is the same model as the one in modelsky web?

  :)

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 02:18:15 PM »
Alberto, this is copy of my 2 years old c/l model. It comes from Czech maker (Prague), all dimmensians are from my model, colors are "derived" :- ))))) from Italian GeeBee r3 design. It is designed especially for C/L, but I have seen version for R/C. That what you see are first pieces which I got to "debug" the kit. I hope that the kit will be available soon. Week or two. If you need it to Spain, it will be probably possible, but usually we buy such thing by personal contact. Shipping is not so easy (read not so cheap).

BTW can you give me a link to that modelsky model? I have no idea what you mean.

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2010, 03:41:10 AM »
oops, i made made a mistake, this is the web
http://www.rcmodely.sk/zobrazclanok.php?id=300
I think we will build them from the plan, you are right, shipping would be more expensive than the kit.
thank you

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2010, 05:02:19 AM »
Yes, that is exactly plan used for that model, with some small modiffications resulting from practice. That kit makse sense only in case that you want pretty model (colors are most expensive part of the kit), or if you do not want to play with that hardware.

If I remember well, that plan has somewhere some mistake, but you will see.

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2010, 09:38:20 AM »
OK, I will check the plan before starting.
only one more question, what are the measurements of the bellcrank? it looks quite big

thanks

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2010, 09:41:13 AM »
classic 10cm (4") ... it must work with "no line tension" ... negative will be even better  ;D

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2010, 08:43:59 AM »
Is the model a biplane, triplane or even a quadraplane?? S?P

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 08:46:33 AM »
3 plane from side to side and also 3 plane from top to the bottom  VD~

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2010, 10:21:08 PM »
Hmmmmmmm............maybe I should try a RED BARON....Fokker Triplane?? :!
Keith R

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 12:36:27 AM »
Red baron has too small side area. ... but you can have two of them, one wing vertical, one horizontal  LL~

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2010, 10:27:19 PM »
Maybe you are right about the side area. The airfoils might also have a little too much camber. I read Dave Fitzgerald's "De-Tails" article again, and it could also be that the stab has a lttle too much positive incidence. Mmmmmmmmm......... maybe if I turned the middle wing upside down, it could cancel out some of the camber problem?? The prop looks about scale. I'll work on the side area.  ;D
Keith R

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2010, 12:45:01 PM »
Christmas finally arrived here too  :)

My model weights 180-185g complete, we will test them soon  ;D

Thank you for your support Igor

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2010, 03:20:38 PM »
 %^@

looks good ... and light ... what is the motor? battery? I cannot imagine where to save 20g.

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2010, 03:41:13 PM »
I think most of the weight savings came from the material, it is made from "depron s" which is lighter than usual (from about 140g to 120g each plate)
The battery is:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10868

And the motor, this has surprised me, well made and powerful, we will see how it performs.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7520

The esc is cc phoenix

Offline Jose Luis Oterino

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2010, 11:02:19 AM »
Hi all.
And this is mine ..
The other half of the Spanish gee bee team. ;D
Mine weighs 195 grams ... the diference in weight is in the timer (mine is bigger).

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2010, 11:47:13 AM »
They have flown!

We had a great time, the first wingover was terrific, sooo slow  :o
But later we flew some complete schedules, it is really funny...

With air brakes mine was flying at 5,6s/lap, 5s without them, but it always kept the lines "tight"
It took only 350 mah for 4 min, so I think the batteries could be even smaller. Everything was barely warm, no problem at all.

Happy Christmas  #^

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2010, 02:54:31 PM »
>>>but it always kept the lines "tight"<<<

:- ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I know exactly what you mean, you must just believe it will make it ... does not matter that your reflexes force you to run :-))))))))))))))))) ... hard to explain without trying ... so it looks you gave yourself great Cristmass gift  #^

BTW any video?

Offline Jose Luis Oterino

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2010, 05:54:14 PM »
Wow...wow...
It is really very slow... :o
The wingover afraid to enter ... but when you've done it once .... goodbye fear ... is incredible ...
The vertical eights  ... no words ... sloooooow very sloooooow ... <= #^
Thanks Igor ... yes..it is a good christmas gift.
Regards

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2010, 07:58:03 AM »
The video is ready!


Igor, have you considered moving the battery outside (maybe to the right gear strut) instead of adding lead to the tip?

Regards  :)

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2010, 03:46:57 AM »
I see you had really fun at christmass. Another session on NY?  VD~

But I think it is somehow slow, I think you have to keep at lap times somewhere 5 or 4.9. What is the TO rpm? I had it somewhere at 4600 with prop GWS 10x4.7.

Yo will need also little more trimming, I would suggest to play little with rudder, I ended at little INBOARD rudder offset ~10mm, but it will depend on lines diameter, I see you use thicker wires (compared to my)

Offline Alberto Solera

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2010, 04:05:57 AM »
 :) Not new year but sunday...

we were flying at 4300rpm, withouth airbrakes it flew a 5s, but on downsides it gains too much speed, i feel better with them. Maybe with active control...  ;D
we will try with some inboard rudder.

we use lines made of dynema, it is line for fishing, with some kevlar, I will look for thinner ones. What lines do you use?

Regards :)

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2010, 04:56:41 AM »
I have "Spiderwire" 0.14mm ... yes, I used to fly at 4300 without brakers, but it needs some 300 rpm more with them.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2010, 09:01:23 AM »
hi Igor,

That little set up looks really neat.

My son got his/our (we've been doing all this CLPA stuff as a team since he joined me in it) first foray into electric C/L flight yesterday in the mail.   It isn't the "Rolls Royce" of set ups, but he found it at about 1/3 the cost of retail, so it was "allowable" for the budget. An ARC version of a OTS plane I have been flying in OTS competition.  Consequentially, it will be a source of slight comparison.  And I got to "give him and extra Christmas present", so to speak. ;D  Now it's off into the wild blue yonder realm of ESCs, 4S, EBS, etc., etc,.......  and I thought learning Portuguese was tough.

Depending on how the weather goes, we will hopefully get to fly it in the very near future.

Thank you to all you guys who are pioneering this category of our hobby/sport.

Bill
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Jim Moffatt

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Re: Early Christmas :-)))))
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »
 #^ #^ #^

how do i get one in the USA?
 #^ #^ n~


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