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Author Topic: E-Strega Flies!  (Read 2687 times)

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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E-Strega Flies!
« on: September 09, 2009, 02:47:04 PM »
We have been in the process of developing a series of different E-power packages running from 1/2A sport to 65 equivalent size.  One of the latest to fly was the the latter - in Strega.  This was intended to be a proof of concept for a BIG power package.  To build this we started with the good info shown here in the Forum, particularly the List your Set-up  thread, plus factored in what we have been learning along the way.

The basic fan laws show that power increases as the 5th power of diameter - so for big props you better be ready!  For starters we were looking to keep heat down by keeping reasonable current draws.  The simplistic thought is that Current = Heat.  Thus the heart of the system is the 6S battery pack.  As far as we know this is the first (only?) 6S system that has been flown in ECL, and is quite possibly the most power system out there.  It ws originally flown with 6S-2800 pack (about 15.5 oz) but we have downsized the pack to 6Sx2650.  A nice by-product is that battery recharge times are shorter with the lower mah usage.

The motor is an Arrowind 3526 (equivalent to AXI & Scorpion designations) with a 685 kv.  I know, the kv sounds a little high, but WAIT, more about that later!    A Phoenix 60 was available so it was used. However, in practice even the static current has not exceeded 46A so it is really overkill - a Phx 45 or the new ICE50 would do just fine.

Of couse, a Will Hubin timer completes the set-up.

The Strega was built as a take-apart (removable wing) and that mod costs about 4 oz.  I wanted a top access hatch for the battery so the top of the fuselage back to the bulkhead of the wing was removed.  The Strega motor crutch mounts directly to the balsa fuselage side, and the doublers go AROUND the outside of the mounts.  So instead of popping the mounts off the doublers like I usually do, a Roto-Zip saw was used to hack out the motor mount crutch.  What was left was sanded flush with the doublers. The cylinder air ducting was unusable and in the way, so it was removed, but the air exits retained.  The sub-floor was retained at the bottom of the fuselage sides (bottom skin is below that).   A firewall for the rear-mounted motor was fabricated and installed, it juts into and is reinforced by the top block.   Two small access holes (looking like gun ports!) provide access to the top motor mounting bolts.  OF COURSE I clipped the ends off the flaps, and changed the control ratios to my liking.

Final weight is 79 oz (ugh), and we are flying it on .018x66 ft lines.  Yes I know, they should be .021's but we did not have any handly and I am NOT worried about it!  We originally flew it with a 13x6.5, but have graduated to 13x4 (much better!)  There are two ar inlets, the first is aimed and baffled into the front of the motor, the second is routed to the battery and ESC.  Must be working pretty well, we have not excced 105 degrees on the motor nor 100 degrees on the pack.

I flew the test flight: 1:45 of shear terror as the bird was moving at 4.9 sec/lap and pulling my fat patootie all over the circle.  Before I landed I loudly announced that I was NEVER going to fly it again!  Young Nephew Archie who still posseses youthful exhuberance not yet tempered by old age and treachery, cheerfully volunteered to take over.  He slowed the motor by some 500 RPM and moved the leadouts forward 1/2" (!!!).  The original 13x6.5 prop provided GREAT power but did not do a very good job of preventing wind-up of the heavy bird.  Thus Archie moved on to a 13x4, cranked the RPM up to suit and now has it working pretty darned good.  At higher RPM the motor kv is much better suited too.

Archie (Arch#3 in family shorthand) claims that even an old man can handle it - and proved it by having his dad (Arch#2) fly it in Muncie during the team trials.  MOBA (Much Older Brother Arch) proclaimed that it ain't half bad, certainly the POWER is NOT a problem.  Now Arch-2 and Arch-3 are conspiring to make me fly it again.  However, my arm is still sore...

I know of at least one more E-Strega project in the works, this one sounds like it will be quite abit lighter.  Hopefully Bob can post his pending success story within the next month or so. 

My paradigm against large airplanes remains in place, however should I ever choose to go there I KNOW how to power it.  Even at 79oz the poor Strega didn't even put up a fight - remember that bird also has a 2.75" thick wing.  If I was building a Strega-sized Mythbuster, I would tailor the design for e-power and also take about a pound out of it.  The power system would then just loaf along - and could probably downsize the batteries again...
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 02:58:58 PM »
I hope this didn't discourage you Dennis, you fly great already
Matt Colan

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 03:00:18 PM »
So that explains why the knuckles on your right hand drag on the ground!  LL~
Dean
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Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 03:11:59 PM »
Here is an Eagle Tree plot of a flight to the Overheads.  It was flying in 14-18mph winds @ 5.4sec/lap.  I had some premature shutdown issues in the beginning because of the low throttle setting required to get the proper lap time with the 13 x 6.5 prop.  I also got some strange spikes in the Eagle tree plot, so it may be time for service on the unit.  I got my ICE50 later in the week and didn't get a chance to fly it and get the data that it currently is set to.

As it is now, the power system uses 2100 mAh for a stunt flight @ 5.2 sec/lap in calm conditions on 66' eye to eye 0.018" lines set @ 11,000 rpm on the 13 x 4 APC "E" prop.  We are going to now go to a Xoar 13 x 5 and slow the rpm a bit to conserve more battery.  (Be a great place to use a 13 x 4.5 "E" pusher) Throttle setting currently is 78.7%.  The 13 x 6.5 was on track to use 1800 mAh, so the 5 pitch should get the usage down to 1900-2000.

This is a very viable conversion.  The power system weight is 24ozs.  The output is considerable, and even at 79 ozs, the Strega flies very well.  The 4 pitch prop will pull it through anything.  it is scary how fast it comes off the ground.  0-55 in what seems like a blink.

Thanks to uncle Dennis for allowing me to test it and fly this bird.  Anyone who has big power in mind, The 6S high rpm set-up in this bird is for real.  I have no doubt that in a lighter bird designed for electric, it would even be better!!

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana        
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 05:12:20 PM by Archie Adamisin »
Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 05:04:37 PM »
Matt:
We perceived the Strga to be a power "hungry" application.  However I have seen good power pacakages rangining from PA-75's to Piped PA-51 to ST-60's to big block 4-Strokes.  Thuse their are a lot of comparison points for the E-system.  As Dean reminds us our friends in RC-FAI pattern are using power systems that are completly off our charts, and those systems are becoming THE standards.

Dean:
Yup, one hand draggin, a unibrow, and a new falsetto vocal range... n~  LL~  VD~
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 05:16:10 PM »
My goodness, he has (1) 1:45 flight on it and I have (10) patterns on it.  I don't start complaining until at least the 3rd flight.   n~  In a row...

Come on Uncle Dennis, let's all chant, "FLY THE STREGA!!!" LL~ LL~

You'll never be the same.....

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana
Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 06:47:09 PM »
We have been in the process of developing a series of different E-power packages running from 1/2A sport to 65 equivalent size.


So have I missed seeing the 1/2A set-up?

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 07:23:34 PM »
Jim G:
Have not said much about it, but it was shown at the Brodak Fly-In - had a converted Baby Clown.  I am also working on a 1/2A Pathfinder but that is still in process...

Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 07:25:44 PM »
My goodness, he has (1) 1:45 flight on it and I have (10) patterns on it.  I don't start complaining until at least the 3rd flight.   n~  In a row...

Come on Uncle Dennis, let's all chant, "FLY THE STREGA!!!" LL~ LL~

You'll never be the same.....

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana

FLY THE STREGA! FLY THE STREGA! FLY THE STREGA! FLY THE STREGA! LL~ LL~ LL~  Come on guys join in.

I flew grandpa's p-40, my arm got tired by the horizontal 8, and a number of times, my arm always gets tired at that point

Matt Colan

Dave Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 03:04:48 PM »
Well I can chime in on this too. I flew it today and I can tell you that the power is amazing. The thought about how much it weighs goes away as soon as it's in the air. At 78oz.s I was expecting some lightness above 45 deg but it actually was pulling firmly on the overheads. I've been flying more big stuff then my family members while working on the big Evo's. It has the solid feel of a large cu. in. slimer. Impressive..

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 09:24:04 PM »
Matt:
Today when we were out Strega-flying i started hearing the chants: fly the Strega Fly the strega.  So I quieted the chants by turning OFF my hearing aids, then flew my 42 oz Hellcat instead  ;D
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 10:13:47 AM »
Dennis,
 Let me change it up a bit. I wont bug you for you to fly it.If I fly out there to see you, Can I fly the Strega? I have one here with an ST60 in it that I haven't flown in a while. Would love to see how one flys with E power.
William
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2009, 11:38:24 AM »
Will:
YOU ARE ON! (be careful what you wish for  LL~   LL~  LL~)   All seriousness aside I think it would be GREAT if you flew it - especially since you have Strega experience.  I think this is more powerful than a ST-60 but do not have a side by side comparison. 
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2009, 02:14:02 PM »
OK,
If all works out how about a week from Saturday 9/19 weather permitting. It's in between contests that week for me. If I remember right you are by DTW. So if I fly into there we can hook up?
William
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Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2009, 10:18:49 PM »
If I could offer some advice Will. Stretch out & HANG ON!!!!!!

Maybe you could shame Uncle Dennis into flying it because you flew all the way to DTW to fly it?  LL~

Let the Stregiation continue!!!

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana
Archie Adamisin
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2009, 03:33:34 PM »
I'm all ready and looking forward to it. I'll check the flights for Saturday and Email Dennis to make sure its a good day for you guys too and if all the pieces fall into place I will see you then. I promised him I wouldn't push him to fly it but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see him fly it.
William
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2009, 05:59:34 PM »
AWESOME!!! I made it out to to fly the plane today and it was incredible!!!! I flew two full patterns with the new 13x4.5 pushers that Dennis received and on 66' of line and this prop this plane just pulled everywhere. At almost 80oz this plane flew through the pattern with a 5.3 lap like it had cruise control. It actually was pulling at the top of the vertical 8. It also went through the clover effortlessly. This is some power system and proves to me that even these larger and heavier than average stunters can be effectively E-powered!!!

I want to thank Art and Archie for picking me up at the airport and dropping me back off later that day. Thanks to Dave for having me at his house for a little while. Thanks to Dennis for arraigning this trip and for driving 90 miles to meet me and let me fly that plane. Thanks for those 2 sample props. I hope to have one on the SV11 to fly with tomorrow. This was just a great day for me!!!! I'm glad we were able to make it happen. We have to do this again!!!
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Offline "Big Art"

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2009, 07:22:19 PM »
Hello Will, it would appear that you made your flight. Thank you Will for the visit. It was a bit of a hectic day. If you do come back I'll make sure you will get to fly quite a bit more. It is good to have these kinds of get togethers. It was fun.
See ya Will
Your friend in Modeling
 Big Art:

Alan Hahn

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2009, 07:24:09 PM »
<snip>...

I want to thank Art and Archie for picking me up at the airport and dropping me back off later that day. Thanks to Dave for having me at his house for a little while. Thanks to Dennis for arraigning this trip and for driving 90 miles to meet me and let me fly that plane. Thanks for those 2 sample props. I hope to have one on the SV11 to fly with tomorrow. This was just a great day for me!!!! I'm glad we were able to make it happen. We have to do this again!!!


Sheesh, what some guys will do to save the cost of postage! LL~

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2009, 08:02:36 PM »

Sheesh, what some guys will do to save the cost of postage! LL~
Alan,
First class both ways!!
William
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2009, 08:44:43 PM »
Will:
Let me also THANK YOU for your incredible day-trip and for your help.  We have been working hard on all these new power systems.  I think they are all working well, but it always helps to have a fresh set of eyes and hands evaluating.   Your experience with your IC powered Strega and with your SV-11 are invaluable in rating the performance of the new system.  Nice day to fly too.  You actually looked like you were getting pretty comfortable with the Strega-phant!

Rick Sawiciki personally made sure the circle was cut close.  Many thanks to him too.  I dunno, I think Rick might have been converted to pusher props today too.

An unexpected treat was Frank Carlisle and the LA HEAT!  He was our token slimer-flier today, but those two B.40's were in perfect sync, and the HEAT is the real deal.

BTW the Strega HAD been flying at 11,000 RPM with a 13x4 or at 7900 RPM with a 13x6.5,  The new 13x4.5 came in at 10,300 rpm and seemed spot-on.  At Will's suggestion I also moved the l/o another 1/4" forward - probably made possible by the pusher prop.

 
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 02:36:07 PM »
Here's a shot of Will workin the forth loop of the clover with the ecl Strega..

Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 02:59:06 PM »
Okay, does pusher prop mean we all have to fly left handed too?? n~ LL~

Will, great to see you in action with the Strega.  Another Stregiation.  Wish I could have been there.  Maybe next time.

Take Care,

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana
Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 05:17:17 PM »
Here is a group picture from yesterday. That Strega was fun to fly. It handled extremely well for a large plane. If I didn't have enough projects going on in my life, I'd consider converting my Strega to electric. It's no longer wishful thinking that these big planes can be made into electric,it is reality!!!
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Offline Arch Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 09:30:25 PM »
We had about as good a day as you can ask for. A good gathering of family, old friends and a new friend, as well as perfect weather. Sunshine, 72 degrees and 5 MPH of wind. Stunt heaven.
None of this would have been possible if Denny hadn't built a fleet of models for us to play with. We flew everything from a 14 ounce 3S toy to the portly 80 ounce Strega. Everything worked, as advertised, including the new props.
Denny, thank you for building all of these models so that so much testing could be done and so much good data stored. Without all of your hard work, not much of the testing would have been finished. We now have hard data on systems from 3s to 6s in models from tiny and light to models large and very heavy. We won't have to guess any more, just read the spread sheets and build and install accordingly.
     You done good Kid, MOBA - Much Older Brother Arch

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2009, 09:39:43 AM »
MOBA: THanks but you are making me blush!   b1

Frank Carlisle made a video and has posted on YourTube here's the link:



This is the 79 oz Strega on 018x66' lines, running the new prop at 10,300 RPM.  The pilot is Wm DeMauro and this is his 1st flight on the bird.  For his 2nd flight we moved the LO forward 1/4" and he expressed that it was a further improvement.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 10:08:58 AM »
Will,

Great job flying the E-Strega my friend.  I liked that it was quieter than it was @ 11,000 rpm on the 13 x 4 @ 5.1sec/lap.  I can't wait to fly Strega on the new 13 x 4.5 pusher prop.  It looked very happy @ 5.4sec/lap.  All accounts I have heard so far is that it's the right prop.  Sounds like the prop also worked on the SV-11, so another win for APC!!!

Even better was I heard that Uncle Dennis bought out all the birds and only flew the Baby PF.  Ohh the humanity!!!!

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana

Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2009, 05:27:24 PM »
Frank Carlisle made a video and has posted on YourTube
Now the whole world knows how bad I fly!!!! Actually I was flying it big and soft as I had never flown that plane before as an electric and wasn't sure what to expect. I knew within the first lap or 2 that I was going to fly a pattern with it as I immediately knew this power system was going to out preform my ST60 setup. That video was also my first of 2 flights on the plane and I didn't know I was being taped or I would have tried to clean up the flight.
 On a serious note I too want to thank Dennis for gathering all this data, its certainly going to make it easier for us and the second generation of e-flyer's to match power systems to their planes.
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Offline Bill Ervin

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Re: E-Strega Flies!
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2009, 01:01:54 PM »
Will, I finally got around to seeing Frank's video of you flying the Estrega!  That was way cool!  If you ignore the prop buzz it sounds like a jet whooshing around the circle. 


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