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Author Topic: Safety by wireless switch  (Read 6030 times)

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Safety by wireless switch
« on: March 07, 2015, 09:33:51 AM »
Hallo,
I am a 53 years old guy living in Germany. After a 30 year’s pause I restarted my hobby again.
But I had no success with combustion engines, so I started now with brushless motors.
Although there are very good timers I am looking for a device for switching off the motor in case of emergency.
My goal was applying a wireless switch without changes on the timer.

This is my solution:
The pushbutton on the timer starts and stops the motor. There is a connection for a remote switch, too. My remote switch is controlled wireless by this little circuit (length 3cm=1.2inch / 5gr. = 0.2 oz.).

More information :  http://www.safaridrives.co.uk/manuals/DC3-5V-1CH.doc

There are this benefits:
- More safety in flight
- Easy testing out a new model
- Simple way to teach someone flying CL


Regards,
Martin

Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 09:39:39 AM »
This sound interesting for electric combat

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 09:47:46 AM »
Hi Martin,

You can also use one of the 2.4GHz R/C car systems from Hobby Kings. They sell for around $20.00 for the Tx and Rx. I know that some have used this in simple CL trainers with great success. That sort of price is unbelievable and the throttle feature is very nice for training as well. You also don't need the timer.

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 11:04:03 AM »
Hi Keith,

Thank you. You are right, that’s the cheapest solution. I know it.

But I want to go to contests with the same model, so a 2.4GHz R/C car system brings perhaps problems - I think.
At home I fly as a lone fighter, so I have nobody who can prevent people coming into the flight circle. At contest I can remove the switch simply - if required.

And remember there are any cases of emergency - for example:
- people coming into circle
- onrushing dogs, skunks or lions
- attacks of hornets, bees, mosquitos or other blood loving monsters
- sudden dizziness
- kids crying  ”Daddieeeeee..”

..we are in danger all the time!   y1


Regards,
Martin

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 05:45:11 AM »
Hi Martin,

Good points........especially if lions rush into the circle! That could apply to us out here in Darkest Africa!

Are you planning to cut the battery power via that relay on the Rx board?
Keith R
Keith R

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 11:00:13 AM »
Hi Keith,

the silence after "Daddieeeeee..." hits me deeply - it freezes my blood.

On the timer board is a pushbotton. The relay works as second pushbutton. So I can start/stop the motor directly on the timer or remotely via transmitter.
Have a look on my diagram!

My little solution works now in a Vector successfully.

The wirelesse switch works in two modes: momentary and/or latch
I use a timer (FFS2go made in germany), which needs the momentary mode (for the pushbutton).
Your timer works with a slide switch, so you need the latch mode - I think.


Martin

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2015, 12:00:17 AM »
O.K. thanks for the diagram. I see how the system works now. My system with the slide switch works by grounding the input for ON, so if it opens any time, it will shut down and end the program. If you close the switch again it stays in that shut-down mode. My Compact timer with the small pushbutton on the connector works the other way around. Once the system is running any pulse to ground will shut it down. Some years ago a friend of mine used my system with a few changes with a 2.4 Ghz Hobby King radio to do what you're doing, and it works very well. I like the idea of being able to shut it all down when necessary. Nice job!

Keith R
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Offline CircuitFlyer

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2015, 03:45:01 PM »
Martin,

Nice compact transmitter & receiver, I like it.  I have used a Picoswitch (http://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/picoswitch) in place of the slide switch with Keith's KR Timer.  You could use a RC receiver/transmitter or Clancy's single channel U-Tronics to switch it on and then off if required.

Paul
Paul Emmerson
Spinning electrons in circles in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada DIY Control Line Timers - www.circuitflyer.com

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2015, 12:17:39 AM »
Is this gadget worth the risk?  To be worth the risk,

probability of it working when you want it to * average damage prevented > probability of it shutting off the motor when you don't want it to * average damage done

It looks like it would be a good idea for flying an ARF in a schoolyard.  It's maybe not so good for an airplane that took a lot of time to build flying in a paved, fenced-off area.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2015, 03:57:49 AM »
Hi Howard,

my "wireless switch" doesn't grant highest security - i know.
It has the same security level like a transmitter, which opens your garage. A 2.4GHz R/C system is better, but I didn't found a simple and small solution.
If I could fly on a fenced-off area I didn't need it. But it is good enough for flying on a public sport field - IMHO.

But you are asking for the risks. It seems working very well, but I have no experience over a longer time yet. It works since this month.


Regards,
Martin

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2015, 05:20:27 AM »
It would be especially useful for new airplanes, I think. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2015, 02:26:58 AM »
Hi Howard,

the switch is so small you can find a place in a old model too.
But you must solder 4 additional wires for power supply and signaling. I don't like this work, hot solder hurts!   ;)


Martin

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 12:57:06 PM »
I meant that new models are more likely to have problems for which a means to turn off the motor would be beneficial.  As a model's reliability increases, that benefit decreases. 

The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 07:51:04 AM »
Hallo,

the simple timer from Igor Burger is widely used. But it needs a total different operating mode as described before. The wireless switch at its state on delivery (without further changes) can work with the timer – imho.

What do you need?
You need the settings “latched mode” and “output = 5V” . And please - it’s absolutely necessary to read the technical description:
http://www.safaridrives.co.uk/manuals/DC3-5V-1CH.doc

In my thoughts you can use my simple diagram:


Regards,
Martin

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2015, 08:17:03 AM »
Please DO NOT DO IT THAT WAY!!!

That switch has electromagnetic relay, means mechanical contact which can easily cause reset of timer during its work, and thus risk of unexpected start after landing, what can be hardly called "safety switch".

If you really want in-flight remote cut, do it when apropriate, for examle cut the ESC power on its switch.

However proper solution will be to have zero power signal source and switch between timer signal or zero power signal. Even complete cut of SIGNAL line from timer will be more safe then cutting power to timer.

Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2015, 12:29:33 PM »
Please
don’t switch the ESC power with this small relay – it’s very dangerous!

Your hint of switching the signal line is right and it will be implemented so. In this case the relay will only work as emergency cut off.
Attention: a second push on the transmitter button starts the engine immediately!

In my conclusion this kind of timers (without push button) is not convenient/safe for directly operating with this switch. In this case it would be better to work with the arming input/function of the ESC?

Thanks,
Martin

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Safety by wireless switch
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2015, 01:36:36 PM »
Weakest point in the system is human, give him more functions he will do more mistakes. It is much better to count that the model is armed weapon. So if you have baby which can call dadyyy while you fly, then find someone who can take care of him while you fly, if you see lions around, do not fly at all, they will chatch you and if you think you can have heart attack during flight, do not count you will have enough time to search remote controll in pocket and probably also saving model will be last thing which you have to solve in such case, simply crash it, if you land, your helper will need to solve the model first and only then to help you.

However everything is solvable, simplest way is, if the receiver cuts also his own power suppy, so it cannot activate himsel alone. But I do not thinks it is good idea to design such things without deep knowledge what and how works there.   

And may be I will add one hint for trimming. Most of us know it, but may be it will help someone - new model which needs trimming, can fly also 30 seconds if you set the timer so, so it really not need to kill it manually for first flights :- ))


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