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Author Topic: Crossfire Extreme XLTC  (Read 20930 times)

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2013, 02:54:31 PM »
I've lost a lot of weight, Floyd... %^@

Bob

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2013, 05:35:36 PM »
Where do I get a needle nose spinnner like that one?
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2013, 06:41:18 AM »
Good morning, Sparky!

That spinner is a Randy Smith/Aero Products unit that was modified by Jersey Jim Martin (The designer of the famous "Banshee" RC Pattern ship) for me. He clamped the spinner base side down onto a rotary dividing table and then used a straight end mill  to make the "gun port" slots. I'm not sure that the slots actually make the motor run any cooler, but they make the plane look cooler... LL~ He also used the rotary dividing table to drill evenly spaced holes in the backplate. I think it is required to have angled slots in the backplate to induct air into the plenum chamber in front of the motor. Of course all this works only if you also have a motor mount that has passage holes for the air. For instance, the Hardnose mount that I offer has those holes and they line up perfectly with the cooling slots in the motor.

I spoke with Jim about doing the slots in the spinners and the holes in the backplate for others, but he is not interested in getting into that business. Sorry. I'm sure that Jim Lee could do this operation, and I suggest getting in touch with him about it.

Later - Bob     

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2013, 06:46:50 AM »
That canopy (?) style seems to be popular.  I suppose it doesn't matter on a model, but on a real plane it would be uncomfortable if the pilot had to lie down (feet get in the way of a clear view of oncoming traffic?)
Floyd

Had a thought on this, Floyd; Profile models with painted on canopies would be even more uncomfortable for the pilot, and just as hard to see from... LL~

Seriously, these models are in no way meant to be scale models, rather pieces of flying artwork that reflects the personal styling preferences of the builder/finisher. Let's not examine them too closely for scale effect. "Real" planes are not tethered and flown in circles around the pilot either... n~

Bob Hunt

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2013, 09:55:20 AM »
Boy, Bob has that right. My current model (in finishing process) would be a killer for the pilot. Probably literally. Could see much but the dashboard.   LL~
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2013, 11:56:02 AM »
Sparky and Bubba both have cooling air going through the fuselage and out the back. Did you "waterproof" the inside, and are there no bulkheads or framework to stiffen the sides, etc.? I'd love to see construction pictures of that. I'm concerned that flying in even misty conditions, the fuselage could absorb water, shift the CG and ruin the finish from the inside. Show us! (PLEASE!)  H^^ Steve
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2013, 09:21:25 PM »
Okay, got a bit of the red on today; more to go...

Steve: Yes, the fuselage is open all the way through for cooling on very hot days. I can seal off the opening into the fusselage for rainy days and just use the air outlet in the bottom of the cowling. That outlet is between the simulated gear doors and has a wicker bill in front of it to make it scavenge quickly and completely.

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2013, 09:40:12 PM »
Looks very cool, Bob. Where's the bronze?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2013, 10:10:37 PM »
Geez Bob,, whats taking so long,, that stuff is ready to mask in like 45 minutes,, ya coulda painted the whole thing in one day  D>K
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2013, 04:53:20 AM »
Geez Bob,, whats taking so long,, that stuff is ready to mask in like 45 minutes,, ya coulda painted the whole thing in one day  D>K

Mark: You're right; I'm so ashamed... ~^

Randy: The "bronze age" is over...  H^^

Bob

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2013, 09:20:17 AM »
>>Randy: The "bronze age" is over...<<

Finally went through that 55 gallon drum, huh?

It looks really good, Bob. And don't listen to Mark. A good finish takes time.   ;D
 
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2013, 11:45:32 AM »
............................................ D>K
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Online Matt Colan

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2013, 09:14:43 PM »
It's looking real good Bob!
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2013, 09:06:19 AM »
>>Randy: The "bronze age" is over...<<

Finally went through that 55 gallon drum, huh?

It looks really good, Bob. And don't listen to Mark. A good finish takes time.   ;D
 
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2013, 07:19:28 PM »
Getting close! The red's all on and the canopy has been shot. Tomorrow all the letters and numbers go on. Friday is a bit of cleanup (very, very little this time!) and it's off to the spray booth for clear. Should be flying by next week.

Later - Bob

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2013, 08:54:07 PM »
Wow, I like this version a great deal. I will be anxious to hear the flight report.
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2013, 05:55:56 AM »
Looks Good Bob!

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2013, 06:42:09 AM »
Hey Bob, looking good. 
Question, when you make the molded top block, does it include the part for the removable canopy hatch, or do you make that as a separate part ?
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2013, 07:03:18 AM »
Thanks, Keith, Derek and Allan...  :)!

Allan: The forward portion of the canopy is the hatch. This can be molded, but it is difficult to get a molded part to be removable and have perfect seams I choose to use a solid balsa block in that area, carve it to shape and then hollow it out to a thin wall. The rear part of the canopy is molded in one piece along with the remainder of the top shell.

Later - Bob

Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2013, 07:35:17 AM »
COOOOOL!

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2013, 10:39:41 AM »
Thanks, Marcus!

Okay, the numbers and letters are on and there is extremely little clean up to do before the clear goes on.

This will be the last report until this thing is cleared, sanded, buffed and made ready to fly.

Hey, these things take a lot of work! n~

Later - Bob

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2013, 10:56:03 AM »
Looks good!  I like those colors, they are very familiar...hahahahaha!!
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2013, 11:12:14 AM »
Yes they are... Do they remind you of this... ?  #^

Bob

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2013, 12:31:56 PM »
Yes they are... Do they remind you of this... ?  #^

Bob

Nah, not as much as this....

< ========== << look, just to the left, a little bit.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2013, 12:41:10 PM »
Oh yeah... That's a nice one too...  VD~

Looking forward to another battle in Muncie - Bob

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »
It looks really clean Bob,,
now about that clear,, I think it looks outstanding in satin,, maybe just somme satin gloss  H^^ y1
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2013, 07:18:05 PM »
Very slick and professional looking, Bob. Should be a great plane.
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2013, 08:08:58 PM »
Thanks, Randy - and everyone else - for the encouraging comments. I really like this ship and only hope that it flies as well as my last Crossfire. It is a couple of ounces lighter at this point than the last one was, so I'm hopeful that it will be in the high 50 ounce range with the battery on board. <=

Randy: I'm really looking forward to seeing your new/first electric ship in color. It is a fantastic design; very futuristic. Reminds me of a pod racer for sure! %^@

Later - Bob Hunt  ;D

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2013, 10:50:21 PM »
Thanks, Bob. The covering is on. Just building up to paint.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2013, 07:24:31 AM »
I got word from "an unnamed source" that Bob's Extreme XLTC has had the clearcoat applied and he is wearing his fingers to the bone rubbing it out since they recommend compounding in the first 24 hrs +.

We should see pictures and initial flight reports soon.
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2013, 01:29:50 PM »
It's just short of a full week since the last post. The way Bob works, this thing has been buffed and has 25 plus flights on it by now, what say you Bob???
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2013, 08:18:05 AM »
Hi Guys:

It's all rubbed out an flown, and it is nearly trimmed. Just a few little things to address. No big deal. It turns absolutely equally in both directions, takes off and lands perfectly pretty much all by itself. I'm a happy camper. Still not sure that this is the bird I'll be flying at the Nats, however, as last year's ship is flying amazingly well with the trim changes that Paul Walker suggested. I incorporated those trim changes into the new ship and it seems to like them as well. Will be nice to have two great models to choose from. I'll make my decision on which I'll fly at the Nats by the weekend.

Here are a few finished shots of the ship...

Later - Bob 

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2013, 09:21:48 AM »
It looks really good Bob! Really like the tricycle landing gear look!
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2013, 09:35:01 AM »
Oh boy!!! #^ #^ #^ #^

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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2013, 09:58:32 AM »
Bob,
Looks great. Have you raised the gear yet? I that could give a few more "impression points" in flight.
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2013, 10:44:29 AM »
Hi Guys:

 However, as last year's ship is flying amazingly well with the trim changes that Paul Walker suggested. I incorporated those trim changes into the new ship and it seems to like them as well. Will be nice to have two great models to choose from. I'll make my decision on which I'll fly at the Nats by the weekend.

Here are a few finished shots of the ship...

Later - Bob 


Bob.

The new bird looks outstanding, great color contrast.  The trim changes that you and Paul applied to the ship, can you give us more specifics?  I see your leadouts are fairly far forward, has the CG found it's way forward also?....most interested.
Thanks for your time

Dave
Regards
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2013, 11:10:19 AM »
Bob,
Looks great. Have you raised the gear yet? I that could give a few more "impression points" in flight.

Hi Tom:

Raising the gear might be neat, but it would be difficult to do as there are no retracts in this plane; that's the twin that has the go-away gear... y1

In the future...  ::)

Later - Bob

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2013, 11:13:50 AM »

Bob.

The new bird looks outstanding, great color contrast.  The trim changes that you and Paul applied to the ship, can you give us more specifics?  I see your leadouts are fairly far forward, has the CG found it's way forward also?....most interested.
Thanks for your time

Dave

Hi Dave:

because this model has minimal leading edge sweep, the leadouts are further back than they may appear; and they may go back farther... That's one of the trim tips I received from Paul. The other one was to go to a 12 x 6 EP instead of the 13 x 4.5 prop. I got much more turn from the smaller prop and better tension everywhere as well!  #^

Later - Bob

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2013, 11:16:32 AM »
Bob,
Whoops,

I guess I am still rooting for the twin.

This airplanes is still very impressive.
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2013, 12:11:23 PM »
Bob,
I just noticed that your new Crossfire has one motor missing!
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #90 on: July 28, 2013, 07:12:21 AM »
Bob,
Great job at the NATs, since you elected to fly the "new" Crossfire let's hear the backstory. Why did you elect to go with it over the other ship? Did the design changes you made work as you intended? Is there more tweaking you can do to get it better or is it really close to peak?

Curious minds want to know. y1

Best,       DennisT

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2013, 09:14:22 AM »
Hi Dennis:

Both of my Crossfire Extremes (the tail-dragger and the trike version) fly very well and there is little between them to make one preferable to the other when it comes to the flight maneuvers. The decision to use the trike version was because of the ground handling virtues of that ship. Takeoffs and landings are very easy with that ship, even in high wind conditions. I received a lot of big numbers from all of the Nats judges on those maneuvers with the new ship and I think that is significant. I don't understand why more fliers don't opt for trike gear. I do know that the placement of the main gear relative to the CG is very important, as is the angle at which the ship set on the ground. The main gear must not be positioned too far aft of the CG (with battery on board) or the tendency will be for the ship to abruptly hop into the air. You must be able to raise the nose gear and let the ship run on the main gear and then lift off at a low angle to get max points. The ship must also not set at a nose down attitude. I wish I could tell you that I adjusted and trimmed the new ship's landing gear geometry to get it perfect, but the truth is that I hit it perfect right off the board. Dumb luck on my part to be sure...

The new ship has a longer nose to allow me to use a lighter battery placed more forward to achieve the proper balance point. That worked out perfectly. The older ship uses a 4,000 mAh 4S battery that weighs in the 14 ounce range and the new ship uses a 3,300 mAh 4S battery that weighs around 12 ounces. With the addition of the nose wheel strut the ship balanced just about perfectly without the need for additional nose weight. The new ship came out 1/2 ounce lighter on the Nats scales compared to last year's ship. The new one weighs 62 ounces and last year's ship is 62.5 ounces. Note that the new ship is stretched all over and hence is bigger. The new ship has one inch per panel more wing span, 1/2 inch per panel more tail span, a one inch longer nose and 1/2 in longer tail moment. So, compared to last year's ship, this one has a lower wing loading. Can't say that I really notice the difference in flight performance however...

I do know this: Everyone (Judges, co-competitors and spectators) told me that this new version presents very well in the air. I've always believed that having a signature look to my models was important. I like my models to be unique and have a look that is different than everyone else's models. It is one of the many intangibles of our event; setting yourself apart from the crowd is often likely to gain attention. Sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. I think in this case - this time - it was a positive.

Am I going to continue trimming and adjusting on the new ship? Certainly. In fact, I never stop trying to find more performance in all my models. Just recently I made great gains in flight trim on my Genesis Extreme. That ship was built in 2,000!

I used a Cobra 28/26-10 this year. It has a huge bearing in it (not that I was having any bearing problems with the E-Flite Power 25 that I had used in the past), and it is extremely quiet, even compared to the previously acknowledged quiet electric setups. I like the lack of noise most of all in electric. I think it makes the performance seem even smoother.

I'm going to try a lower Kv motor soon and that will allow me to try the 5S batteries that many are touting. Leave no stone unturned... I'll also be trying a variety of three-blade props (both pusher and tractor). I'll try lines that are a foot and a half shorter as well. I like the solids that I've been using for many years, but will give cables a try too.

I do believe that there is more performance to be had from this ship, but I am well pleased with how it flew at the Nats with only a handful of patterns on it. I left for the Nats with only six full patterns on the ship! It now has somewhere around 35 flights on it. Third was not bad for such a new ship, but I really should have put well over 100 flights on it before the Nats. It was not to be...

I now have two really great flying Crossfire Extremes in my stable and can start to experiment with other configurations. Certainly my Second Wind twin is at the top of that list and I'm getting back to work on that one now so that it will be ready to fly in the spring of 2014. Hopefully I can get those 100 or so practice flights on that one before competing with it.

I have several new and very radical ideas that I want to try. Electric power certainly allows for experimentation with multiple motors and unique motor placements.  There are a number of other things that electric power allows, and Dean Pappas and I are examining some stuff that promises to bear a lot of fruit in the future.

I had given a lot of thought o retiring from competition this year, but I've changed my mind and have decided to rededicate myself to development and competition flying for as long as the Good Lord allows.

It just keeps getting better... Bob Hunt
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 09:47:10 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2013, 11:12:38 AM »
I'm glad to hear this, Bob. Wouldn't be the same without you.
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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »
Bob,
Great summary, interesting to see how a design evolves. Have you tried the low pitch high rpm with the 12" diameter? It would be interesting to see if the lower pitch would pull out of the corners stronger. It seems that with electric higher rpm seems to draw more current and could require a higher capacity pack even with the lower pitch and same diameter. If it works it would be interesting even if we need more capacity.

Checking the battery pack options it seems that the 5S 1P 2700 TP (10.2 oz) is a lighter option than the 4S 3300 (11.4 oz). The big big break for electric will be when we can recharge in 10 mins or less and use 95% of the pack without reducing battery life or have power drop off.

Best,       DennisT

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2013, 03:14:30 PM »
The big big break for electric will be when we can recharge in 10 mins or less and use 95% of the pack without reducing battery life or have power drop off.

Best,       DennisT
Dennis,
    We already have the 10 minute charging. We can have the 95% of the pack, IF you want to ABUSE your packs and don't care about lifespan. There are a few that do this. I don't and I don't recommend it but, yes it can be done. Bob, myself and others  have the ability to charge a pack in 9-11 minutes but we rarely go at full speed and usually take 12-15 minutes, It's still a great rate of charge. I regularly bring 12 batteries (6 4s 3700mah and 6 4s 2700 mah) up from storage mode in around 20 minutes. At this point, we may be more limited by the chargers available to us than anything. We are pretty much maxing out what we can get out of 24V power supplies and 110 standard US house current. I've already popped a breaker. What I think we will eventually see are some 48 V power supplies and 2500 watt chargers. 10C charging rates are here, though not the norm yet. At that point we will have 5 minute charge times.
William
AMA 98010

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2013, 05:04:48 PM »
William,
I understand there are some cells that are able to take a very high C rate charge but those are not Stunt packs, they are usually 30% heavier then the ProLite cells. I don't know what packs you like but I have tried several an go back to the Thunder Power's. The new G8's are getting there but you still need to leave 20% head room. The only cells that you can charge at 10C and take down to 95% without hurting them are the A123's. Problem is they are very heavy and not available in convenient sizes.  Electric has come a long, long way and is only going to get better.

Best,        DennisT

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Crossfire Extreme XLTC
« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2013, 08:49:48 AM »
If you are flying alone I can see the 10 minute charge rate, but is that after the battery has cooled down.   When I was flying with the guys and granddaughter, which made four of us.  I/we would get to fly every fourth flight.   If a person has say at least 3 packs for flying, is that enough time to let a pack cool while using the next pack.   Myself I usually start losing concentration on about the fifth pattern when flying, that is when the play plane comes out or I sit and relax for a couple of hours.   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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