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Author Topic: Future new controler for ECL  (Read 762 times)

Offline Jose Luis Oterino

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Future new controler for ECL
« on: October 03, 2011, 07:11:59 AM »
Hi All
My friend Pablo Sáez and mine, work in a new controler for ECL models.
See more in this link.

http://adarvueltas.blogspot.com/

Regards.

www.jpaeromodesl.com



Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 10:27:09 AM »
Quote
In order to get it we decided that, basically, the best would be include a gyroscope in the controller design and use the angular rate data to control motor rpm's and this way fit it to our requirements.

Of course!  Man, that's an obvious way to measure lap time (well, lap rate), once you think about it.

You'll have a lot of noise any time you hit turbulence (and probably when you go around tight corners), so you'll want to have something like an inner RPM loop, with the outer rate loop resting a pretty light hand on the reins of an integral controller, but it should work.
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 10:45:00 AM »
Tim, this is what we do for years, the difference they do is, that they included the sensor directly to the ESC itself, while we have sensor actually outside and we deliver the signal by PPM line, so they have chance to get better result. We will see how far they can push it  :) ... I hope we will see the result next year in Bulgaria. :- )))))

this is old video, posted several times here, but you can see it in action (I mean that outside loop version):


Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 10:51:40 AM »
That flight looks so weird, the way the plane almost stops at the beginnings of the up-lines.

Depending on the sensor they may not get much better feedback -- but there's a lot of different silicon gyros out there to choose from.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 01:27:07 PM »
You'll have a lot of noise any time you hit turbulence (and probably when you go around tight corners), so you'll want to have something like an inner RPM loop, with the outer rate loop resting a pretty light hand on the reins of an integral controller, but it should work.

You talkin' about the RPM control or the angular rate control? 

I like the hand-on-the-reins metaphor.

Igor, did you use yaw rate compensation at the European Championships?
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 02:22:37 PM »
No, this time I had new regulation with accelerometer. I finished model only 10 days before championship and I did not have time to mount it from old model to new, and I also did not know which one I will really fly, so after all I used that other device, but it worked well :- )))

That gyro system I used last year in Gyula.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 03:16:35 PM »
You talkin' about the RPM control or the angular rate control? 
I'm assuming that the outer loop is the airplane angular rate.

Quote
I like the hand-on-the-reins metaphor.
Thanks.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 06:50:00 PM »
Hi Tim, Hi Howard,
I think you'll find that most of the successful (or even semi-successful) smart controllers have used the RPM governor for the fast inner loop, and the added sensor is used to create a change in the governor setpoint at rates that are within the governor's control bandwidth. These often have limited range on the RPM setpoint for sanity's sake. Yaw rate, direction of flight Jerk, steady-state governor error and 2-D mapping (in the plane of roll) of the gravity plus centripetal acceleration vector have all been tried to my knowledge.

with apologies to the non control-theory geeks.
                                                                Dean P.
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Offline Robert-Jan

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 12:50:19 PM »
Hi  Jose

I also have made a timer with logging.
-Battery voltage
-Current
-PWM signal
-G in 3 axes
-And a potentiometer for deflection.

See

The potentiometer gives very useful information you can see it in the middle of the wing trough the fuselage. With a ball link it is connected to the flaps.

Question I have cut off the nose because the CG was way too much forward. Did you not have CG problems?

Greetings Robert-Jan

Offline Jose Luis Oterino

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Re: Future new controler for ECL
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 02:29:57 AM »
Hi all.

We want to make clear that we don't want to do a RPM control for the moment, we are only dealing with angular rate control at the moment. In the near future, when the PID is tunned we will think if makes sense to sett other sensors (RPM?)

@Igor: we read the ESC signal to measure RPMs, we don't use a sensor for this task....

@Robert: Ee didn't have any CG problems, since we put all the electronics right in the CG. ;)

Aaaaadios


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