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Author Topic: New profile "Electrajet"  (Read 1828 times)

Offline Mark Scarborough

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New profile "Electrajet"
« on: October 26, 2010, 10:25:14 PM »
Guys, thought I would post a few pictures of my new project. Hoping it will let me get remotivated to finish her .
Electric power, Hacker A30-8xl
640 in^2
TVC is .503 if I recall correctly from when I did the calculations
Right now looking to come in around 58 to 60 ounces ready to fly
wings will be ultracote, fuse painted
Your right, the wing is shoulder mounted, with anhedryl. the intent here is to get the vertical CG correct since I am placing the battery pretty much right on the CG. At this point, it appears my math was pretty close and balance is looking good, of course, I can move that 12 ounce ballast around to get it perfect  y1
I need to finish this so I can finally,, FINALLY paint the bf 109 that is hanging on the wall in primer,, sigh
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 12:29:46 AM »
It looks like you've done whole lot of the hard work already.

How many feet is the finish going to be?  (For calibration, the plane I brought to Salem was about an 8-foot finish -- yours was an 8-inch finish).
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 12:41:11 AM »
Thanks Tim
I thought your Waix (spelling) was perfectly respectable for its intended purpose. My first few planes I tried pretty hard to make nice, then I finally figured it out, even though I loved doing finishing, I could build TWO airplanes if I monokoted them, and my second year, I needed them ALL! The Gee Bee was the latest in that train of thought. Attractive, but designed to be flown abusivly, and eventually, just accepted the road rash lol
The intent of this current airplane is three-fold.
first, a competative profile model since the poor gee bee is getting, well its tired,, after having served me well
Its my second electric model, purpose built instead of a resurected glow airframe. Really wanting to understand better, and have flexibility to experiment with power componants. They will all be very accessable.
lastly, its for when the conditions on Sundays are horrible and I dont want to risk the Avenger,,
that being said, its going to be simple, clean, and hopefully bright. WEll that is the plan today anyway,, ask Randy about plans on paint schemes,,, lol,
I must  confess though, that nice sheeted foam wing would be SO sweet to paint on,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 01:13:08 AM »
Hi Mark,

You are a true craftsman as well as an artist! I like your design. I'm sure you have seen Larry's beautiful anhedral winged CLPA jet. Your excellent track record shows us that yours will be just as nice!

Your attention to detail is amazing. Not only are your slots perfectly cut and your nose is sleekly built, but you even neatly inlaid hardwood pieces to secure the main gear. Really nice!  8)

We all look forward to seeing it when it is completed. We will continue to give you friendly encouragements to help you stay motivated until it is completed.  ;)

For those of us who know you Mark, we know how obsessed (possessed? ;-) you are with perfection and it sure makes for beautiful planes coming out of your shop, but I am glad to see that you are learning the many benefits of film on the wings and being OK with a few flaws as your planes grow old ..... gracefully.  :)

Warm Regards,  H^^
Rudy
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Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 09:16:58 AM »
Encouragement, encouragement, encouragement ...
Dean
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 09:32:10 AM »
Thanks guys
@ Rudy, well not sure just how gracefully the Gee Bee aged, lol, I was pretty hard on that old girl several times,, but she seemed to revel in it.
Dean,
Rob flew his Ringmaster 526 with the Nue motor on it. I havent seen it fly, but Hopefully we will get some weather to trim it. He wants me to fly it for him to get the trim right. Looks like the motor will work respectably though we are going to do some swapping with a Rimfire .25 to get a feel for benefits drawbacks of each system. Incidently, that Rimfire .25 motor has some interesting specs,,, Looks like a great candidate for something around 550 inch^2 on a 4S 2600 pack.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 10:51:29 AM »
WOW! MARK!!!
Thanks for posting these  great close up photos and info about this beautiful project of yours. H^^
Don Shultz

Offline Rob Smith

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 11:09:01 AM »
Ahhh....he finally reveals it for all to see.

I've been forced to look at the Electrajet hanging on Mark's shop wall for a couple of months now. Mark was distracted with race planes for the last little while and totally disregarding my chants to get moving on the electrajet. Maybe now he will press forward with the project! Go buddy, go!

Rob

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 11:48:53 AM »
The intent of this current airplane is three-fold.
first, a competative profile model since the poor gee bee is getting, well its tired,, after having served me well
Its my second electric model, purpose built instead of a resurected glow airframe. Really wanting to understand better, and have flexibility to experiment with power componants. They will all be very accessable.
lastly, its for when the conditions on Sundays are horrible and I dont want to risk the Avenger,,
that being said, its going to be simple, clean, and hopefully bright. WEll that is the plan today anyway,, ask Randy about plans on paint schemes,,, lol,
I must  confess though, that nice sheeted foam wing would be SO sweet to paint on,,
IMHO your first and second goals are best served with a simpler, quicker finish.  The first goal because you'll just get done sooner, and the second goal because you'll be hacking it up at some point anyway -- so making sure you have big swaths of one color (and extra paint that matches) will make it easier to make the modifications look good.

Your third goal is served with a nice finish, but perhaps you just need to grit your teeth and do something simple, to move forward fully on goals first and second.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 11:56:35 AM »
Actually, the way the nose is constructed, I can swap motors, ESC, and timers with no modification at all.
One of the reasons for mounting the battery on the CG was to minimize the affect using different batteries would have on balance. so hopefully, no hacking will follow. I am pretty confident that the airframe itself will not require any mods. Its pretty straight forward, excepting the anhedryl anyway. time will tell, and the simple finish will allow me to fly it with more confidence,, or read that as less fear  ~^
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 12:02:35 PM »
Looks cool, Mark. Keep at it.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 12:03:33 AM »
Guys, thought I would post a few pictures of my new project. Hoping it will let me get remotivated to finish her .
Electric power, Hacker A30-8xl
640 in^2
TVC is .503 if I recall correctly from when I did the calculations
Right now looking to come in around 58 to 60 ounces ready to fly
wings will be ultracote, fuse painted
Your right, the wing is shoulder mounted, with anhedryl. the intent here is to get the vertical CG correct since I am placing the battery pretty much right on the CG. At this point, it appears my math was pretty close and balance is looking good, of course, I can move that 12 ounce ballast around to get it perfect  y1
I need to finish this so I can finally,, FINALLY paint the bf 109 that is hanging on the wall in primer,, sigh

 Aha Mark, testing the post theory ( ;D). Neat project, but I'm waitin' to see that '109! y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 09:09:52 AM »
@ Wayne,,I know, I know,, I want to get back on it too. Need to finish this one so I have a fresh profile bird for next year. plus I want to further explore electric power, so this is the beast!
THEN the 109. I have to finish the 109 this winter, Linda says she needs the wall space cleared up where the 109 is hanging,, afraid it may  get relegated to the dark caverns if I dont get it finished soon... HB~>
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 11:14:30 AM »
Looks cool, Mark. Keep at it.
Yup.  There's something cool about a control line plane with dihedral -- anhedral counts.  I'd like to see that one coming around the circle.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 10:56:15 PM »
Ok progress,,
I have the wing installed, tail installed, fillets mostly done. I got ahead of myself and realized I CA's the elevator fairings on before I installed the horn bearings. Dumb dumb,, so I had to cut the fairings part way off, install bearings and reinstall the carefully hacked off parts. At least I remembered it before I put on the fillets!
anyway, a couple words about the design philosophy behind this airplane.
Most everything was done for a specific reason. The general purpose of this plane was to explore different motor~ESC~ battery combinations to get a feel for what else will work besides the already proven Plettenburt Shulze combination, that is pretty pricey. ( though certainly top of the line equipment)
So, in order to make it easy to change battery sizes, while being able to accomodate the inherant changes in CG that would result, It has a high wing, with anhedryll. This allows the vertical CG to be in the right place by putting the battery closer to the actual CG of the airframe. I should mention I moved the motor forward to allow the battery to be carried further back on the fuse, again, to minimize the effect of battery size on the balance of the airframe. The motor mount is front mounted, with clearance for a vast array of motors to be fitted. At this point, I have an AXI 2826-10,   two Hackers, one is an and A30-8XL( 1100 KV) and an A30-10XL ( 900KV). I also have a scorpion 3026-10 980 kv, and am working on getting a Hacker A40,, cant recall the number right now. There is also a Rim Fire .32 that I have that looks very interesting. I have three different batteries to try, ranging from the new Thunder Power  to the Turnigy Nano tech batteries. So you can see I designed in some ease of experimentation for this plane.
The nose design, I touched on this on Rudy's thread about cooling. I am forcing air in through the slit inlets on the inboard side, I beleive the inboard side of the nose is slightly positive to the outboard side due to the way the airplane moves around the circle. The outboard side has a cheek cowl that finishes with a small lip to generate some negative pressure to help direct air to flow over the electronics which are mounted in the bay with slots running vertically through the ply doubler. The outboard cheek cowl is glassed in place and acts as a doubler for the motor mount plate. The nose ring is ply and has basicaly a tongue and groove that captures the fuse front in the ring and balsa nose rings.The inboard cheek is removable and acts as a plenum to allow the air to slow down and move across all the components. The battery will mount on the outboard side of the fuse. I found in my P-40 that by mounting the battery this way, I basically eliminated the need for most of the tip weight. The Electrajet is 640 inches of wing, and a TVC of .530. It should be able to carry an aft CG and still be  very stable, or a forward CG and still have good corner. I plan on trying both extremes.
So, you can see the why now,,
Oh one other note, the side view is pretty much the outline for an F-16  which came to Shaw air force base, like 3 months after I got off active duty, but I always loved it, so here is my homage to that beautifull bird. I hope I do it justice.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 11:00:57 PM »
Guess I said all that drivel once before, but it was scattered, consider that a post to combine all the random thoughts from before,,,,oh and she is still on track to be RIght at 60 oz ready to fly depending up on battery of choice and motor
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2010, 12:17:05 AM »
Uh, Mark -- profiles are supposed to be something that you won't weep over if you crash them.  Not works of art that belong on a museum shelf in their own right.

Honestly.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Stagg

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2010, 07:00:24 AM »
Mark,

Very nice, I can tell you have put a lot of thought into placement and function of all components. It is very easy to get caught up in making a nice looking plane and forgetting about function. You have done very nice job of both.

I understand the though of a profile being simple, functional, and no tears added after a crash, but obviously like you, I enjoy each creation like it is the only stunt machine I have.

Very well done, I look forward to reading about how it performs

Tim
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2010, 12:08:32 PM »
Mark! WOW!
Thanks for sharing not only the story of this beautiful and challenging project but also through those beautiful close up photos that really illustrate just how amazing your creative and artistic talent truly is.
Don Shultz

Offline Rob Smith

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 03:37:07 PM »
Can't wait until she is done! Can I fly...huh...huh?

Rob

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 06:08:25 PM »
Looking at Mark's new bird, Tim Stagg's Shooting star and Randy Powell's Ringmaster Deluxe is appears to me that the line separating a profile from a full fuselage model is getting blurier by the build! 
Denny Adamisin
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As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2010, 08:11:43 PM »
Finally got a new battery for my scale,, weighed it as it sits,  34 oz, thats with the fuse glassed, fillets, controls, wheels and gear. that leaves 26 oz to make my goal of 60 oz all up.
The preferred motor is 6.3 oz, battery 14 oz, esc and timer another two, so there is 22 oz of it. I hope not to have to use any tip weight, or not much, so I have a few ounces to play with for priming and painting the fuse.
Looks like I will be right in the ball park. I would say it should be a workable platform, especially if I can go to a slightly smaller battery and save a couple ounces there.
Thanks for the positive comments guys,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 08:17:39 PM »
Uh, Mark -- profiles are supposed to be something that you won't weep over if you crash them.  Not works of art that belong on a museum shelf in their own right.

Honestly.

Tim,, another thought,,
Its like a street rod with a Roush blown small block, Doug Nash 5 speed, fully independent suspension,, if you trailer it to shows, Its not really a car is it!
they are meant to be flown, and the best part is when it looks cool from the handle,, ( cause thats where you see it most of the time anyway) I have crashed enough pretty planes,, I pretty much say goodbye on the maiden flight anymore,, if it survives,, I get to enjoy it longer, if not, well they all have experation dates on them so what the heck right? what else would I do with my time,, Knit,, maybe bake cookies LOL,, Finishing is the part I like the best ESPECIALLY sanding, its like zen,,, Me, the plane, the sandpaper,, and my collection of sanding blocks and gadgets,, sigh,, Nirvana,,,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Tim Stagg

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 06:45:18 AM »
Mark,

I agree with you, if it doesn't fly, it isn't worth anything to me. I like you, like the finishing aspect, creating that cool looking bird, although sanding is a must I do hate that part, the older I get the more balsa dust gets to me and that is even wearing a mask.....well most of the time.
Tim Stagg

Offline Rob Smith

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Re: New profile "Electrajet"
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 10:01:31 AM »
I've seen Mark's work first hand....terrific! I too am having more trouble with balsa dust and CA glue fumes. I have to wear a mask now. I haven't seen Mark crash lately? He has seen me crash!! LOL

Rob


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