Author Topic: Climb And Dive Timer Revue (Read 697 times)

John Rist · « **on:** January 20, 2023, 06:07:39 PM »

I ordered one of the Climb and Dive Timer and it arrived last Tuesday. Paul Emmerson of CircuitFlyer is the creator. His web sight is www.circuitflyer.com. As he puts it: "Low Cost DIY Control Line Timer".

The version I am working with can be found at:

https://circuitflyer.com/Climb_and_Dive/?fbclid=IwAR0wxqiBZNI9x9bxpHJQJImJiuBe0froxsrsUwXNtd_GKrlOwiGQkaj1J7E&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

I am a big fan of the KR Timer. The Climb and Dive Timer appears to be similar to the KR in that they both have a connection to the motor leads to sense motor RPMs. This allows the use of a cheep ESC. One that does not have constant RPM control built in. However the Climb and Dive Timer has an onboard accelerometer provides a programmable active boost in power during a climb as well as a decrease in power in a dive. If this works it should give the Climb and Dive Timer an edge in performance. The KR timer uses a program stick to program and is easy to program. The Climb and Dive Timer is programed via an app on a smart phone.

Anyway as time goes on I will pass along what I learn about the Climb and Dive Timer as I build, program and fly this unit.

To start with lets look at what came in the package. See photo Dsc_7532.jpg The package contained two PCBs, 3 header pin connectors, and a JST connector with cable.

John Rist · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2023, 10:52:19 AM »

Assembling the parts of the Climb and Dive controller.

First step was to down load and print the assembly instructions. They can be found on the left side of the screen at https://circuitflyer.com/Climb_and_Dive/?fbclid=IwAR0wxqiBZNI9x9bxpHJQJImJiuBe0froxsrsUwXNtd_GKrlOwiGQkaj1J7E&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Under Assembly.

I have good setup for soldering PCBs. It consists of a temperature controlled soldering iron and rosin core solder. One must have a small tipped soldering iron for this job. A soldering gun is not the tool for this one. See DSC_7537.jpg for a picture of my setup.

Per the instructions the next step is to solder the 5 pin right angle header to the PCB. Observe closely the correct orientation of the connector per the instruction picture. I held the connector in place with an alligator clip and then soldered the 5 pins. See DSC_7536.jpg.

Finally you assemble the two PCBs and the two 7 pin headers. Once again the instructions pictures are very clear. Make sure you assemble everything per the pictures. My first attempt to solder this assembly was to hold it together with alligator clips. Things had slipped and I managed to plug a couple of the holes in the bottom PCB. I managed to clear the holes with a de-soldering tool. Once again this is small PCB work and some skill is required. On my next attempt I held the assembly together with a rubber band. I then soldered the 4 corner pins on both sides of the two PCBs. I removed the rubber band and soldered the rest of the pins on both top and bottom. See picture DCS_7540.jpg and DCS_7542. I cleaned the residual flux off with alcohol.

Final step is to clip off all of the remaining pins except the touch pins. Do this per the instruction picture. As I have stated over and over the instructions are clear and the pictures are easy to followed. The Climb and Dive is now ready to install in an aircraft. See DSC_7543.jpg

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2023, 05:30:01 PM »

Thanks John.
I got one ordered today. Looking forward to your flight report. 👍🏼

bob whitney · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2023, 06:13:14 PM »

Lets program the whole flight and leave the Gassers home

Dave Rigotti · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2023, 06:24:29 PM »

Bob,
You are amazing! Programmers won't EVER get dizzy, unlike us.....

Quote from: bob whitney on January 23, 2023, 06:13:14 PM

Lets program the whole flight and leave the Gassers home

John Rist · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2023, 08:30:45 AM »

I decided to install my Climb and Dive timer in one of my Cavaliers. Even though the Cavalier is a profile ship all of the electronics and the battery are under a hatch cover. I have 3 Cavaliers. This is the oldest one and I had removed the KR timer for use in another ship. See DCN_7549

I was able to orient the Climb and Dive timer per the instruction sheet by adding a 1/16” plywood platform. That is pins facing forward and the unit facing the pilot. The JST connector leads were connected to two of the motor leads by inserting them into the female half of the bullet connector. The male half of the connector was then inserted into female trapping JST wire in place. I have done this in the past with the KR timer motor lead and it eliminates the need to solder this connection. The JST connector leads sense the motor RPMs and do not carry heavy current. Therefore the above way of connecting the works well. See DCN_7551.

In order to see the LED and be able to get to the touch pin I cut a hole in the hatch cover. I also extended the length of the touch pin to make it easier to access through the cover hole. See DSC_7553

I did an initial test run with the prop removed. Every thing seemed to work as it should. Next I will set up the Bluefruit Connect app on my smart phone and finish setting up my Climb and Dive timer. More to come as time goes on.

Frank Donnelly · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2023, 01:05:31 PM »

I received the timer last night. It was really easy to assemble. I used a 25 watt iron and had it built in about 10 minutes. The instructions are very clear and comprehensive. I programmed it using the app via Bluetooth and did some bench testing. I have included a video of my testing. Next step is to get it mounted on a plane and do some actual flight testing.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2023, 01:50:48 PM »

Frank this is a great video and very informative. Thanks for thanking the time.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

Brent Williams · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2023, 01:54:27 PM »

Frank, did you perform a bench check to also verify that it accounts for inverted flight and an accompanying throttle increase based on the outboard wing roll?

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2023, 02:25:02 PM »

Frank,

Thanks for explaining everything, interested in hearing your progress in flight testing and what your thoughts are in relation to our other timer

Tim

Frank Donnelly · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2023, 02:29:40 PM »

Brent,
Good call! I did not test that with this timer. I did make that test some months ago on the Fiorotti timer, and it does account for being inverted. In other words when inverted, and the outboard wing rolls up, the RPMs increase. With that being said, when I get a chance I will perform that test on the Climb and Dive timer and post my findings. I would bet that it works the same way as the Fiorotti. If not then it would be a no go for flying the pattern.
Frank

Frank Donnelly · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2023, 02:44:25 PM »

Tim, I'm looking forward to flight testing this but I can tell you right now that my favorite feature in the Fiorotti timer is the G Force setting. Getting that right, just nails the line tension in the overheads even in windy situations. I would not give that up. I'm using a KR Governor in my profile stunters. I'm looking at this Climb and Dive timer as a possible replacement for that one. I have had some issues with the KR shutting off when you least expect it. In addition The KR doesn't provide the accelerator driven RPM compensation.
Frank

CircuitFlyer · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2023, 03:15:30 PM »

Great video, Frank! Thanks for doing that.

The active timer output is based on the rate of change so it doesn't matter if you start from upright or inverted.

John Rist · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2023, 03:29:56 PM »

Frank, I am a little weak when it comes to Apps and computer programing. Thanks for a great video. It answered a bunch of questions I had,

I live in Huntsville Alabama so I should be able to get in a flight test soon.

Frank Donnelly · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2023, 04:35:32 PM »

Paul,
Thank you for all the work you did in developing this. Can't wait to go out a try it.

Brent,
Before I read Paul's post I ran the inverted test. Just as Paul stated it works fine.

John,
I'm glad you found it helpful. I'm looking forward to your flight testing results.

John Rist · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2023, 05:49:52 PM »

I installed a start/stop pushbutton on my setup today. I found the following. First of all, if you do not have good soldering skills it is a little tricky to add a push button. If the two pushbutton pins were adjutant one could use a JST connector to attach it. If you planning to use a start/stop pushbutton you might want to leave these two pins long. That way you could wrap the pushbutton lead around the pin and solder. This would reduce the chance of a solder bridge between pins. Next I found that to start the timer you must hold the button until the motor burps. A short push will not start the motor. After the motor is running a quick push stops the motor instantly. And lastly the pushbutton will not put the timer in the program mod. Only the touch pin will do this. So all in all the pushbutton works. If you are going to install a Climb and Dive timer in a full body aircraft a pushbutton may be a good option. In a full body you won't be able to see the LED while flying the aircraft but I don't think this is a big deal.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2023, 07:15:39 PM »

Quote from: John Rist on February 02, 2023, 05:49:52 PM

If you are going to install a Climb and Dive timer in a full body aircraft a pushbutton may be a good option. In a full body you won't be able to see the LED while flying the aircraft but I don't think this is a big deal.

It looks like the LED is positioned so that a light tube could be used to make it visible. I am using one on my Fiorotti and it makes the LED about twice as visible as it is without it. Just a thought.

Ken

John Rist · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2023, 10:19:40 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on February 02, 2023, 07:15:39 PM

It looks like the LED is positioned so that a light tube could be used to make it visible. I am using one on my Fiorotti and it makes the LED about twice as visible as it is without it. Just a thought.

Ken

Good point. Would like to see pictures and what do you use for a light tube?

CircuitFlyer · « **Reply #18 on:** **Yesterday** at 07:23:32 AM »

The optional pushbutton switch is installed in parallel with the capacitive touch pin. Both inputs operate all functions.

John, the switch you are using may have a little too much 'bounce'. All mechanical switch contacts will demonstrate intermittent contact for the first few milliseconds of operation. Some of these quick high to low transitions may be getting through and causing the issue. I just ran some tests and the pushbutton I use works just fine. I will add a little more 'de-bounce' into the code for the next update. In the meantime, you could try a different switch to see if that helps.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #19 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:55:45 AM »

Quote from: John Rist on February 02, 2023, 10:19:40 PM

Good point. Would like to see pictures and what do you use for a light tube?

I will take some pix when I get to the office of both the tube I found and the assembly and add them to the post later today. Basically, I found a Lexan tube with the same ID as the LED and cut off a washer like section to put over the LED. I painted the outside rim white (I didn't have any chrome or silver) and glued that into the plane so that when I mounted the timer it covered the LED. The tube traps the side light from the LED and makes it glow and appear nearly double the diameter with the same intensity. I have very mild dyslexia (it was flying stunt as a kid that taught me how to overcome it). Searching for that tiny light at 65' was causing hunting. I had just bought one of those light tube camera's and it hit me. I am sure that if I searched enough, I could find some true light tube with mirror walls that is small enough, but the Lexan (which has the transparent properties of glass) did the trick.

Ken

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #20 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:05:08 AM »

Quote from: John Rist on February 02, 2023, 10:19:40 PM

Good point. Would like to see pictures and what do you use for a light tube?

Here they are and a link to a YouTube showing it in action. Note the glow around the LED. It is very visible from 65', even when the plane is up-sun. Sorry about the shoddy finishing, it is just a fully monokoted profile. It has one of those 10' finishes! Flys great.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M-acFXj5XIw

Apologies for the junk after the video. YouTube decided to make it a "short" and you can't edit/crop them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B9G1RBFD?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

FYI: I see that I have actually used Acrylic. It is not as glass like as polycarb but it is very close. I thought I was ordering Lexan - my bad.

Ken

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #21 on:** **Yesterday** at 03:43:54 PM »

Quote from: John Rist on February 02, 2023, 05:49:52 PM

I installed a start/stop pushbutton on my setup today. I found the following. First of all, if you do not have good soldering skills it is a little tricky to add a push button. If the two pushbutton pins were adjutant one could use a JST connector to attach it. If you planning to use a start/stop pushbutton you might want to leave these two pins long. That way you could wrap the pushbutton lead around the pin and solder. This would reduce the chance of a solder bridge between pins. Next I found that to start the timer you must hold the button until the motor burps. A short push will not start the motor. After the motor is running a quick push stops the motor instantly. And lastly the pushbutton will not put the timer in the program mod. Only the touch pin will do this. So all in all the pushbutton works. If you are going to install a Climb and Dive timer in a full body aircraft a pushbutton may be a good option. In a full body you won't be able to see the LED while flying the aircraft but I don't think this is a big deal.

Good info John
Can you post a picture of the pins you’re suggesting on keeping long to connect the push button wires to?

I got my timer and will get in together in the coming week.
Thanks

Brent Williams · « **Reply #22 on:** **Yesterday** at 04:14:17 PM »

Here is the info from the manual on how to wire up the optional remote push-button switch.

John Rist · « **Reply #23 on:** **Yesterday** at 05:08:51 PM »

Quote from: Paul Taylor on Yesterday at 03:43:54 PM

Good info John
Can you post a picture of the pins you’re suggesting on keeping long to connect the push button wires to?

I got my timer and will get in together in the coming week.
Thanks

Brent nailed it.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #24 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:05:59 PM »

Thanks guys. 😉