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Author Topic: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions  (Read 2094 times)

Offline Keith Renecle

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Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« on: October 02, 2019, 09:16:21 AM »
Hi All,

I've received quite a few emails lately from folks that are trying to decide on which timer to buy for their latest stunter. The basic question now is "which of the top stunt pilots are flying with the KR Governor timer system"? I therefore thought that I should provide some clarity on this forum seeing that the readership base is so large.

The simple answer is "I don't really know"! I've sold over 1600 systems to date so it's not easy to track. When I started out on this project back in 2008 and it began to impress quite a few people, I put it into production, and I was told by one of the highly experienced stunt people that it is too cheap, and that the top pilots would not buy it as such. My answer was....who cares? There are only a handful of top pilots and thousands of sports fliers out there! The target for my system was to offer an alternative to glow engines for getting started in C/L stunt, seeing that it was becoming more and more difficult to find good engines for our hobby/sport. I also figured that it would certainly be easier for a beginner and of course the lack of noise would permit flying in noise sensitive area's like sports fields, parks etc.

A few of the better stunt pilots gave me some good feedback and said that my system flew a competitive pattern but was a bit soft in response time in hard corners, so I found a way without any external devices like accelerometer's, gyro's etc., to add some boost with my variable one-way gain system. This is some extra feedback gain in the hard corners and climbs. This made the system much more competitive and since then I have had many good comments from some of the world's best stunt pilots. Unlike Igor's active regulator system, my system cannot back-off rpm on the downhills. Does it make a huge difference anyway? No, not really, but I will add that my comments are only true for most of us mortals. For the guys in the Top 10 to 15 at world champs level, I believe that all of the small benefits add up, so yes.........an active system can make a beneficial difference if you and your model can make use of it.

I have also been asked why I simply don't add an accelerometer to my system seeing that it uses the lower cost esc's without their own governor system? There are two good reasons why I don't do this. Firstly, my friend Igor has done this very successfully already. Just btw, Igor also helped me a lot in developing my system. Secondly, I don't have a clue how to program such a system!  y1 Basically my system works really well as it is for the vast majority of sport and fun models from big right down to the 1/2A stuff. The other unique feature that shuts down the system when the prop is jammed for whatever reason, is a real bonus and prevents burning out the electric stuff in most cases. I've also been asked if using a governor system is really necessary for the Babe Bee or 1/2A models?Well,not really and you can use a simpler timer.....BUT....even these small models fly so much better with a governor and of course that feature of shutting down the system when you hit the deck (yes it does happen!) is a real bonus.

I'm now out of serious competition at 69 years of age, and recently I have developed some .15 size trainers, and fun models like WW2 combat fighters. For this application I use my Compact timers that fit nicely under the Velcro strap that holds the esc and timer. You can see this in the pics below. The Velcro straps go right through the fuz and also hold the battery in place. If you hit the deck, ( do I have to keep mentioning this??)  then the timer and esc just come loose with mostly zero damage. All of these models use a .15 size electric package consisting of a 1400 Kv motor that weighs around 75 grams, 30 Amp esc, 1300 ~1500 mAh 3S 25C battery, and APC 8 x 6 E prop. I made them out of an extruded foam called Isoboard that we get in Darkest Africa that's similar to Depron or Blue Foam. I cover everything with medium weigh model tissue (teabag tissue in my case) and white glue. All parts are cut on my cnc foam cutter. If anyone wants more details on these models or my timer system then feel to ask as many questions as you like on this forum or by means of a PM.

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 09:25:05 AM »
Here is a pic of the two WW2 models, a Hellcat and Zero.
Keith R

Offline John Rist

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 09:54:24 AM »
Keith, I have 3 of your KR timers.  I am a low end sport flyer trying to learn the beginner's stunt pattern. I have been flying your timers for several years now. So far I have crashed meany times.  Haven't lost a ESC, motor, or a KR timer in any of the crashes. I credit the safety feathers in the KR timer for this.   I am not heavy into computers or programming so I love the simplicity and ease of programming your units,  especially the ability to change RPMs at the field. It only takes one program stick for all three KR timers.  I also use cheep ESC.   All in all you system works, is easy to setup, price is right. and flyers great.  I can't speak for top level fliers but for all the rest of us your system is very cost effective and and it works!.  Thanks for a fine product!   #^   #^   #^
John Rist
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 10:36:32 AM »
Thanks John, I appreciate your nice comments and I do know that you've been using these timers for a while now. I also appreciate how on many occasions that you've helped others to understand the system before I could even reply myself. Thanks a ton!

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 11:20:44 PM »
Hi Ty, Wow...........that's a bummer! So you didn't even have to add that smoke generator that Tim Wescott always refers to??  #^

The first time I flew my system in the world champs was in 2012 in Bulgaria and their grass field was full of bumps. Everyone was battling to take off, with a lot of props being snagged in the grass. Loren Nell from New Zealand was using my system and had a prop strike and everything just shut down. He asked the judges if he could go again and they agreed so he just re-started and off he went. I sold quite few immediately after that flight!

Keith R
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Offline Martin Kuehschelm

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 06:14:49 AM »
Hi Keith,

your timer is very interessant for me. I see some models with it making very good pattern.
I ask me how the gain settings works. You wrote you found „a way … to add some boost with my variable one-way gain system“.

How high is the boost?
And how long will the boost take?

The default setting for the gain is „4“. Causes that an extra boost?


Thank you
Martin

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 08:44:34 AM »
Hi Ty, Wow...........that's a bummer! So you didn't even have to add that smoke generator that Tim Wescott always refers to??  #^

Wrong kind of smoke.  Slime engine smoke smells good, electric smoke smells expensive.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 02:17:46 AM »
Hi Keith,

your timer is very interessant for me. I see some models with it making very good pattern.
I ask me how the gain settings works. You wrote you found „a way … to add some boost with my variable one-way gain system“.

How high is the boost?
And how long will the boost take?

The default setting for the gain is „4“. Causes that an extra boost?

Hi Martin, Yes, for such a simple system it does fly a very good pattern. All governor systems work with a feedback loop and the overall gain for fast reaction time is set just before the system starts to oscillate and cause instability. I found that by increasing this overall gain does not help where we need an advantage in flying the stunt pattern, so I tried only adding extra gain when the system is loaded, as in a hard corner or climb. This worked very well and allowed my simple system to be used in competition far better than before. I allow the user a maximum gain factor of 7 and on some systems this is far too much and too much oscillation occurs. It also depends on how far up the throttle range you are using the system. Closer to maximum throttle will have less gain adjustment and vice versa. It seems that I have reached a good user average, because in the last few years I have done no extra changes to this part of my program.

Keith R


Thank you
Martin
Keith R

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 02:19:29 AM »
Wrong kind of smoke.  Slime engine smoke smells good, electric smoke smells expensive.

Good one Time. I can't argue with that!  y1
Keith R

Offline John Rist

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2019, 10:49:51 PM »
Will a KR timer work with a 6s battery 2800mah, Ice edge 50 esc and a cobra 3520/14 700kv  8900 - 9200 rpm ?

Are there different model KR timers or different versions, what do I look for?


Thanks,
Motorman
As long as you are operating between 7500 to 12000 RPM it will work.  If KV of your motor times the applied voltage (cell count) doesn't exceed 12000 rpm. It should.  On spin up, after start, the motor goes full throttle for around 1/2 second and then drops back to the set RPM.  If during this time RPMs goes above 12000 the KR detects this as a fault and turns off.  Also if the RPMs are too low on start up it triggers a fault condition and shuts down.  I am not familiar with the Ice edge 50 esc (never owned one) but it has to be OK.  However the ESC can not be allowed to control RPMs.  The KR timer provides this function.  So all such controls must be programmed off in your Ice edge 50 esc.  I am reasonably sure this is the true story.  If not Keith will chime in and correct me.  By the way you can find more info on the KR timer on Keith's web page.   http://www.keithrenecle.co.za/Electric%20CL.htm#Govtimerinfo

PS  On reflection I don't know what full throttle RPMs on start are allowed by the KR timer.  Keith will have to answer that one.
John Rist
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2019, 12:29:51 PM »
Hi Keith, I'm glad I have one of your timers. I'm using mine on my trimotor stuntship. I just hooked the brown wire up to the middle motor and it's doing great. 
David

Offline John Rist

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2019, 01:44:28 PM »
Keith Please send PM price with shipping for KR Timer ver. 2 H with slider switch and programing stick no retracts.

Thanks,
Motorman 8)
KR Timers come from RSM   http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index.php
John Rist
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Clearing up some KR Governor timer questions
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2019, 03:30:58 AM »
Apologies for that. I've been in and our of hospital for a while. Did you manage to get the info from RSM? I know that they have plenty in stock.

Keith R
Keith R


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