Not likley unless the battery pack was a back pack and the lines were the battery leads.  I would guess the first electric power was boats then cars.  According to Wickapedia "Electric-flight was tested on model aircraft in the 1970s,"  It wasn't untill the power tool industry drove the devolepment of battries and motors that electric flight became viable.  Their may have been fly in a circle early on but stunt would have been diffcult back then

Doc
Was there ever a PA 40 designed for an old timer? Or a electronic ignition for a Old time Spark ignition motor?
Just wondering?

Norm

As the subject line starts out,  Was there ever an electric control line design from the Old Time period?   

   I haven't been able to find a dedicated design, HOWEVER as I posted elsewhere electric was being experimented with in the 40's. Frank Zaic (sp?) had a letter in one of his yearbooks from someone in Germany who was playing around with it for both cl and free flight. If you want to go back further, then the earliest mention of electric anymode was a freeflight done in 1908 or so, It was before 1910 and carried the batteries on board.
  I agree that there was probably not a dedicated OTS design for electric, but obviously there is a written record of electric power being used before the 50's. So I'll ask the same question- What is the difference between using a modern motor in OTS and an electric in OTS? Both provide power that is miles ahead of anything available back then ( can you say progress ) and both "pollute" the original concept. Using Era correct engines would be a more "pure" way of attacking the event- if you can find a reliable, inexpensive, engine (or motor ), but who wants to lose the reliability of what is available today.
   Later,
           Ron

In 1948 issue of Aeromodeller Magazine has an article on an electric control line airplane. Dennis Adamisin showed it to me and can probably provide the issue info. I do not believe it was a pure stunt plane, but I am not familiar with non flapped planes of the era.

bob branch

John, that's the one! I must have typo'd the date on my notes. The first electric stunt flight I know of was Big Art's demo flight at the NATS but of course that was during the "classic era" and of course he was flying before that. Dennis could also probably fill in the details there.

bob branch

As I said earlier "Not likely unless the battery pack was a back pack and the lines were the battery leads."  Can you imagine the size of the lines.  Article said 9 v battery from a radio and 15' lines.  Wounder what it cost to fly all day. The lines were wrapped with copper wire.    It's no wounder it wasn't all that popular back then.

Hi John,
 Yes agreed, I'm not trying to make a case for it being a viable alternative to a big Sparkie. Just answering Doc's question.

Having said that though, it also mentions 45 minute flight times and mild stunts being possible, extrapolate that to a 5 minute run and you theoretically have a lot more power at your disposal. The components mentioned are simply off the shelf items never intended for model planes so perhaps a devoted cottage industry may have gone a long way to improving efficiency. Small stunters on short lines were the forte of the UK controlline fraternity back in the 40's. Perhaps running around an automobile battery instead of sticking a small battery in a pocket would have opened a whole new world and the IC engine would have simply died out in 1950.  <--- This means that was a joke.....

TTFN
John.

This came up at one of the after parties at VSC this year, Keith Trostle set the person who said there were no pre 1952 electric straight. Keith indicated there were several that were documented. That kinda ended the discussion. The one in May 49 is from Aero Modeler (UK) and supposedly used a battery that was strapped to his belt. It would be great if we could get some dimension and build one of these.

Best,       DennisT

Derek

I can appreciate where you are coming from. There is another issue though that I cannot recall anyone bringing up on line which is becomming a reality for many of us today. Regardless of our backgrounds... because virtually all of us came from a glow background, many of us no longer fly glow. Not at all! I don't mean we have some glow planes and choose not to fly them because there is some kind of humongous advantage that renders glow noncompetitive. What I mean is we do not any longer fly glow planes, have glow equipment, nor have any desire to have them or fly them any longer. For many of us who fly both RC and CL that goes in both arenas. I have two glow planes, both RC left and only because I choose not to fly that size plane in electric. When they wear out or are destroyed (the more likely since I fly mostly 3D in RC) that will be the end of glow. I'll give the motors away and any fuel I have left along with my glow ignitors and electric starter. The hobby regardless of what type of plane we fly is for the fun of it. For me and for many others today that definition of fun no longer involves glow motors. The only reason these two RC planes are still around is I rarely fly them. Just too much aggravation dragging all the support stuff around than its worth to me.   

Obviously, everyone's mileage will vary on this. And its not really an issue. Its just a preference. For what I enjoy, which is purely the flying, electric is more fun for me. Just like for me flying an arf or arc is now more fun that building a scratch plane any longer. I have built for over 50 years. Today  building a scratch airplane and painting it is no longer any more rewarding than assembling and flying an arf. I fully build and film cover a plane or two a year, but I prefer an arf. The professionals can do it better than I can. But that is for my enjoyment. It should not affect anyone else's enjoyment. They should fly what they enjoy. I love looking at the stuff you and the guys who still build put together. I am thrilled to just see them in pictures, and in real life they are really awesome! And I still love the sound of a nice 2-4-2 run and the smell of glow exhaust. For a lot of us today though, we are getting to the point where glow is no longer as fun for us as electric. Don't think it should be an either or situation. Its just really what each person decides. Some think there are advantages to one system over the other just like some prefer piped glow motors and some do not. In my RC club now just under a third of the pilots no longer have a glow plane. I know of two large RC clubs on the west side of town (Detroit) where a glow plane is now a rare site. No one in my home club flys RC competitions. Just all sport fliers. The two heavily electric clubs have a number who fly competitively, some multi time NATS and world champions, but many both sport and competitive flyers at those clubs just enjoy electric planes more. Its a big hobby. We can all enjoy it what we like in it without spoiling someone else's fun.

bob branch

Derek

I can appreciate where you are coming from. There is another issue though that I cannot recall anyone bringing up on line which is becoming a reality for many of us today. Regardless of our backgrounds... because virtually all of us came from a glow background, many of us no longer fly glow. Not at all! I don't mean we have some glow planes and choose not to fly them because there is some kind of humongous advantage that renders glow noncompetitive. What I mean is we do not any longer fly glow planes, have glow equipment, nor have any desire to have them or fly them any longer. For many of us who fly both RC and CL that goes in both arenas. I have two glow planes, both RC left and only because I choose not to fly that size plane in electric. When they wear out or are destroyed (the more likely since I fly mostly 3D in RC) that will be the end of glow. I'll give the motors away and any fuel I have left along with my glow ignitors and electric starter. The hobby regardless of what type of plane we fly is for the fun of it. For me and for many others today that definition of fun no longer involves glow motors. The only reason these two RC planes are still around is I rarely fly them. Just too much aggravation dragging all the support stuff around than its worth to me.   

Obviously, everyone's mileage will vary on this. And its not really an issue. Its just a preference. For what I enjoy, which is purely the flying, electric is more fun for me. Just like for me flying an arf or arc is now more fun that building a scratch plane any longer. I have built for over 50 years. Today  building a scratch airplane and painting it is no longer any more rewarding than assembling and flying an arf. I fully build and film cover a plane or two a year, but I prefer an arf. The professionals can do it better than I can. But that is for my enjoyment. It should not affect anyone else's enjoyment. They should fly what they enjoy. I love looking at the stuff you and the guys who still build put together. I am thrilled to just see them in pictures, and in real life they are really awesome! And I still love the sound of a nice 2-4-2 run and the smell of glow exhaust. For a lot of us today though, we are getting to the point where glow is no longer as fun for us as electric. Don't think it should be an either or situation. Its just really what each person decides. Some think there are advantages to one system over the other just like some prefer piped glow motors and some do not. In my RC club now just under a third of the pilots no longer have a glow plane. I know of two large RC clubs on the west side of town (Detroit) where a glow plane is now a rare site. No one in my home club flys RC competitions. Just all sport fliers. The two heavily electric clubs have a number who fly competitively, some multi time NATS and world champions, but many both sport and competitive flyers at those clubs just enjoy electric planes more. Its a big hobby. We can all enjoy it what we like in it without spoiling someone else's fun.

bob branch

I fully understand your point Bob. To each his own and by all means do what makes you happy. This is just a hobby even if some of us take it more seriously than others. I am sure that I will play with some electric stuff in the future even if not for competition. I truly love (as you also stated) the smell and sound of a good ol' IC engine. I can, however, certainly understand the ease of operation and the minimal tools needed to have a good time with electric. I too fly a little RC and I tried Gas planes for a bit. I did not enjoy coming home smelling like gas and having my car smell the same. Not to mention all the time and money required to fly the big stuff, so I sold all my gas planes and bought glow again. I am now downsizing my fleet to one or two small RC planes that will easily fit in my car assembled. I have been looking into the new electric park flier stuff and it looks pretty fun.

Derek

p.s. I like to fly 3D too, so a lot of the planes don't last long...

. . .Its very liberating to go fly RC and not have to assemble anything... bob branch

So are kites...

The electric vs glow war will be decided by time and the market place.  Just like film vs digital photography was decided.  As time goes by glow engines will be hard to find and expensive.  It may be 20 years off but it is coming. In the mean time run what you brung and hope you brung enough.  Above all have fun.  If you ain't having fun take your toys and go home!   

I suspect it'll be more like Ford Model As.  You can still get a rebuildable Model A engine at an affordable price, and frames and sheetmetal for the car (unless you're building an Air Camper) are out there still, too.  As soon as demand drops below supply, however small the supply is, the price goes down.

I was only arguing with "hard to find and expensive".  Not with the notion that in a few years (I think it's going to be much less than 20) you won't see many glow engines any more.

How many people today would be able to hop into a Model A and cope with the manual timing and mixture controls?