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Author Topic: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions  (Read 550 times)

Offline Dennis Pedersen

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CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« on: November 24, 2009, 09:36:49 PM »
Hello I have a couple questions on set RPM mode.There are three rpm values to put in,what do these relate to with the Hubin FM2 timer? Also there is a outrunner mode in 3.0 V software plus the 2.4khz ect .Has anyone used the outrunner mode.I have attached a copy of what I have programmed so far? Thanks for any input and help.(Lost in Castle world) Dennis  :P  Appears I cannot figure out how to attach a copy of my program sheet?
Dennis Pedersen
Alberta Canada

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 09:53:24 PM »
Hubins timer has a dial-up RPM pot.  

* The first 1/2 of rotation (0%-50% of travel)  corresponds to the <50% throttle setting.  That means set the pot on the timer anywhere inside the first 1/2 of rotation and you will get the <50% throttle setting.  I usually turn it  (ccw) to the low-stop then move it up a little.

* The next 49% of the rotation (51% to 99%) corresponds to the middle setting.  For this I turn the pot to the high side stop, then back it off about 1/4 of travel.  Again it does not have to be real precise - just higher than 1/2 and lower than on the stop.

* Of course for the 100% throttle setting I turn it against the high stop.


When I get to flight trimming, when I determine a good airspeed I make that the middle setting.  I then set the others +100 RPM and -100 RPM so I can go up or down as I see fit. when conditions change.

That help???

« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 11:52:11 PM by Dennis Adamisin »
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Alan Hahn

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 10:33:27 PM »
I would take some care with the new outrunner mode. It apparently has cause some problems with some people's setups (I am talking about rc applications--I don't know if any CL people have tried it or not---maybe Crist R.??). From what I understand, in outrunner mode the ESC tries to keep he PWM frequency as low as possible, but still higher than the commutation frequency (which depends on rpm). So as rpm goes up, the ESC will increase the PWM frequency to keep pace. Why there are sometimes problems isn't obvious to me.

I'd say stick with a PWM frequency in the 8-12k range--unless someone pipes up that outrunner mode works great in their setup. I actually use 24kHz for my setups, but previously used the default 12kHz value. A lower rate PWM keeps the ESC cooler (fewer current on/off transitions), but in my opinion, keeps the motor hotter. I think the higher PWM frequency that I use is more efficient overall--but no more than 5% at most, maybe not worth the risk of potentially overheating the ESC.

Offline Dennis Pedersen

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 10:44:55 PM »
Thanks Dennis A ,I read your reply and went back to the Hubin directions and the light came on.I can't and won't tell you what I was thinking  HB~> Sometimes I just try and make things more complicated than they are.
Thanks for the reply Alan ,Once I can start to fly again I will try the 12 and 24khz and see how temps are.I see you use the 24 on your Vector setup and was just wondering about the outrunner mode. Thanks again for the pointers.  ;D
Dennis Pedersen
Alberta Canada

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 11:51:16 PM »
Alan: good catch on the PWM frequency.  I am using the 16 khz setting.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Will Hubin

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2009, 09:20:17 AM »
Actually, because the Phoenix “Set RPM” mode is a trinary system, the “timers” that I produce for this mode generate only three throttle settings (or pulse widths), rather than a range of values. When the RPM pot is fully counterclockwise or nearly so, the processor generates and sends a pulse width within the Phoenix RPM #1 range (37% or 1.37 ms) to the ESC; for the RPM pot anywhere in the large middle of its rotation range, the processor sends a pulse width within the RPM #2 range (69% or 1.69 ms); when the RPM pot is fully clockwise or nearly so, the processor sends a full throttle signal (100% or 2.0 ms), to select RPM #3. The great advantage of only three settings is that, knowing which RPM is being used for the flight, the processor can intelligently choose which of the three RPMs to use as an end-of-flight warning. I’ve chosen to use RPM #1 as the warning RPM if it is not in use for the flight and RPM #3 if it is. (It is up to the user to choose RPMs sufficiently different, say greater than 500 RPM, so that the warning can be felt at the end of the flight time.)

The “Set RPM” mode of the Phoenix provides the possibility of describing a specific power system in such a way that it can be duplicated almost exactly, because an actual RPM (as well as the prop and motor and battery) can be specified. (This is in contrast to requiring the user to adjust the RPM using a tach.) Dennis Adamisin takes advantage of this by specifying the Set RPM mode for the upper range of the power systems he has developed for John Brodak.

Any “timer” that generates a full range of throttle settings can access the three Set RPM values—but none can promise an end-of-flight warning because the throttle setting they use for the warning may well be within the throttle range used for the flight RPM. It is possible to document this: my FM-2a, with two RPM pots, can be reliably set to obtain any one of the three RPMs for the flight RPM, but will always use RPM #1 for the warning. (With two RPM pots, I’m able to cover the entire throttle range and yet have fine control in the constant-RPM mode of any ESC that supports that—the Phoenix, Schulze, etc. On the other hand, if a user specifies just one mode, say the High RPM mode of the Phoenix, I can narrow the range for both pots and make fine adjustments even easier and more precise.)

Because the normally-used RPMs for any constant-RPM mode fall within a pretty narrow range of throttle values (30% to 45% gives about 9,000 to 11,000 RPM with the High Range of the Phoenix, 30% to 50% gives about 8,000 to 10,400 RPM with the Schulze, etc.), it is possible to get a fine adjustment of the RPM with only one RPM pot (e.g., my FM-2 and FM-2R). But these timers can access only RPM #1 in the Set RPM mode, in general, and would generate no end-of-flight warning.

The adjustable constant-RPM mode is attractive when developing the optimum prop and RPM for various field conditions but, once this is accomplished, the “Set RPM” has promise for making it trivially easy to select one of three known RPMs at the field, based on current field conditions, without having to use a tach. This suggests a flight manager or timer that supports both modes, selected by moving a simple slide switch. This is the rationale behind the design of my FM-6a, FM-6R, and the new FM-7 and FM-7R.

Offline Erik Janssen

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Re: CC Phoenix 45 programming questions
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 02:22:12 AM »
The CC45 is a very good speed controller, very forgiving. We did some extensive testing on the parameter settings to see what the effect on spool up was in relation to the maximum peak amps. We recorded peaks of 84 Amps where Castle adviced not to go over 60 and my data logger was designed for 50.

After 4 years of use I feel very secure to really use 60A limit for 15 second.

The baseline setting is what I am using. The other values change one parameter compared to the baseline. On the all at once all parameters that have a positive effect on spool up are set to the maximum and the difference in spool up was noticed. In order to preserve my ESC and Batteries I have chosen to stick to the baseline.

In general a setting of 8 will improve the aspect you are trying to improve without harming the controller. A setting of 10 does not add much and has big impact on the maxamps.

It depends on your motor rpm/volt whether you have to use governor high or low. If it does not match the bandwith change to the other setting. Once set it does not make a difference in behaviour. So do not worry if 83,3 or 28,4 is needed

My home built timer has no warning, it stops 310 seconds after the motor starts running.

My CC45 settings:

#######################################################
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: zaterdag 9 mei 2009
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
#######################################################
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 60
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Medium
Cutoff Voltage: 120
Current Limiting: Normal (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Motor Start Power: 59
Direction: Forward (*)
PWM Rate: 12 Khz (*)
Vehicle Type: Control Line
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 21
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 8
Head Speed Change Rate: 8
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: High
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 4
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 14,8000
Motor Timing: 5
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.0 Volts/Cell (*)


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