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Author Topic: Castle Creations Talon ESCs  (Read 580 times)

Offline andreas johansson

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Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« on: May 23, 2020, 08:56:54 AM »
Hi all!

The build/conversion of my Vector ARC is progressing slowly but steady. I have started to looking into what esc to use. Initially i thought of the Edge 50 lite, but as the height is a bit of an issue and the height of the Edge 50 is around 3/4” I have started to look at the Talon line of ESCs. The Talon 60 is only about 3/8” high. As I`m using a Talon ESC in an RC helicopter I`m aware the the BEC voltage is either 6v or 8v. depening on setting. My homebrew timers can only use 5v and I guess its the same with, for exemple, the Hubin timers? I know that people on this forum uses Talon ESCs, how have you solved this problem?

Stay safe and healthy!
/Andreas
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 09:37:41 AM »
What battery do you plan on using? Is it really so tight that the difference matters. I haven't used any talon 60 but I know people that are using them with Hubin's as I set one up for someone last year.I guess worst case you could use an external bec.
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Online John Rist

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 09:38:21 AM »
Read my How a KR timer works.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/how-my-kr-timer-works/

Near the end of it Keith talks about his KR timer can be run a 6 V.  I suspect most timers will work at 6V.
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 10:51:01 AM »
It is worse than it looks. Such ESCs usually use switching BEC which can make higher spikes when battery is connected. That was reason I had to install on my simple timers stabilisers. That peak is not problem on RC applications, because there are usually several devices with capacitors and eliminators. But our application with one low current timer can be a problem.

So ... if you see your timer, and you can inspect components you can see if there is or not stabiliser. If yes, you probably do not have a problem. If there is only processor, then it can be problem, because for example small PIC contollers will last only 5.5V.

If it is the case, you can make stabiliser yourself, you not need BEC designed to feed servos. You can use small low drop 7805. Or you can do dirty trick with 2 diods in serie. I am not going write more, if you understand, you not need more, if not, it is better to use proper solution  VD~

In any case, the best way is to contact maker.
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Offline andreas johansson

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 01:44:10 PM »
As the demand for higher BEC voltage ”drives” the RC Community, I know for myself when I purchased my first full set of 7.4volt servos for a helicopter I wanted a 7.4v BEC. As Igor says, one can solve this the ”ugly” way with diodes, OR incorporate an LM7805 regulator and two capacitors in addition to the current timer circuit design. As I build my timers on rasterboard, they are already kinda large. If I where to incorporate a regulator I think I have to start making a real PCB for my timer. Another way would be, as William says, to use a separate 5v BEC from the battery (in my case a 4s) to the timer and disconnect the positive wire from the ESC. I have read about the KR timers and he states an absolute maximum of 6v, but preferes 5-5.5v BEC voltage. I found a manual for a Hubin timer online the other day, and I could swear he say not above 5v, but I could not find it now so I`m not absolutely sure.

Sooner or later ESC BEC voltage will be 6v+ and current timer designs need to be adopted to that. I use Picaxe microcontrollers for my timers and the chip design states a vcc voltage of 3.3-5vdc.

Igor: Hypotetically, if I where to send you this ”super-duper-über-F2B” ESC with a 7.4v BEC, what would you do?
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 02:31:59 PM »
Also picaxe uses PIC controllers as far as I know, and they are limited to 5.5V so no wonder that all of them are for 5.5V max.

Well, I am probably not right persone to ask how I will do it. My choice is certainly usage of my timer which have already stabilizer (low drop, so it safely works with low and also with high voltage BECs).

But if you ask what "I" will do with such ESC, and timer without stabilizer, with knowledge that it is solution ONLY for that ESC, I will set it to lowest voltage and use diodes. It is simple to install. If the voltage is too high, you can use also zener diode in serie. But 7805 is safe solution in case that voltage difference is higher, if you do not like so many components bastled on cable, you can omit capacitors. You have capacitors probably on both ends of cable (certainly on ESC side and I hope also on timer), so even single component solution without capacitors will work. Put it on timer side and it will work, timer has stable consumption so no risk of some ill effects on cable without capacitors.

BUT ... I tried to google those timers and I found this picture:

https://brodak.com/timer-fm-9-with-remote-start-switch.html

I am not sure, but I think I see there such diode. so maybe it is good idea to ask Will what is safe voltage. If that diode is in serie and pic is safe till 5.5V plus voltage on diode is 6.2V so it can be safe on 6V BEC.
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 04:17:20 PM »
Why not use an older PHX 45 ? You may even be able to get away with Talon 35 since you are using a 4s setup and the vector isn't much bigger than a Nobler.We have run PHX 35 on Nobler's with no issues. PHX 45 are pretty easy to come by on RC forums and on ebay They both have that 5.5V bec. This may be easier than re-engineering everything.
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Online John Rist

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 09:17:24 PM »
That's one of beauties of the KR timer, it works with most any cheep ESC.   For instance the Plush 60A ESC cost only $32 and has a 5.5V BEC.  The program card is also cheep.   

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-plush-32-60a-speed-controller-w-bec.html?queryID=&objectID=82094&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 01:03:13 AM »
Old and cheap ESCs do not have high voltage BECs so no wonder there is no problem with any timer like that.
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Offline andreas johansson

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 06:06:09 AM »
This morning I did some online research regarding this problem with BEC voltage. I found a nice overview of the Hubin timers: https://www.aeromaniacs.com/public/pdf/FM-9-overview.pdf Mr. Hubin have made a timer with a built-in regulator. Most probably he is using the 7805 regulator. The intention of that regulator is to make it possible to use ESCs without a BEC, the timer will be powered directly from the battery. This timer could be used with a Talon ESC with 8v BEC as the 7805 requires atleast 7v.

I also found this little step-up/step-down regulator that gives 5v out from a range of 3-16v in. As its only $6 it seems like an excellent solution https://www.pololu.com/product/2836

Andreas
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 06:36:21 AM »
Look to his FM-9rsm that is exactly what I wrote yesterday and he mentioned it in text, there is diod wich makes 5.5 or even 6V safe for peocessor. That is what I suggested to do.

That large 7805 stabilizer on FM9-VR is too large for timer. It is necessary only because it can feed servo which needs 1A or more. If you feed only processor, you need much smaller stabilizer.

See attached picture, that component close to connector is low drop stabilizer allowing it to work with voltage from 4 to 10V it has enough power for processor. Timer has also power outputs for servo or 0.5A switch (transistor is on upper right side). But also servo or switch for LED etc are all powered directly from ESC BEC, not from timer stabilizer. So it can be all really small (it is all SMD, so connector looks large). He needed that large 7805 only because input voltage comming directly from power battery is too high for servo and must be stalized down and that needs that large package for 7805. But that is necessary only in case that ESC does not have any BEC as it is written in that text. YOu not need it. That diode is IMHO simplest solution.
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Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Castle Creations Talon ESCs
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 08:20:02 AM »
I don’t know anything about regulators or diodes, but I do know I have an airplane with a Talon 60 and a Hubin timer in it. They play well together.
I also have a Vector 40 ARF with an Edge Lite 50 tucked in it. It’s a snug fit, but it works.
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