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Author Topic: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released  (Read 745 times)

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« on: January 10, 2010, 04:03:11 PM »
Guys,
CC has been busy lately.  They have released another version of the Phoenix firmware on 1-8-2010.  It is v3.20 with Castle link v3.241.  I ran my typical bench set up and here are the numbers compared with Phoenix v2.13 (the standard), v3.0, and the new v3.20.

V3.13/v2.13
Battery temp - 120
Motor temp - 122
ESC temp - 97
Mah used - 2422
Amps ave - 23.32
Min Volts - 13.83

V3.22/v3.0
Battery temp - 123
Motor temp - 122
ESC temp - 104
Mah used - 2465
Amps ave - 23.91
Min Volts - 13.76

V3.241/v3.20
Battery temp - 123
Motor temp - 124
ESC temp - 104
Mah used - 2437
Amps ave - 23.75
Min Volts - 13.84

Looks like CC did a little bit better on the latest version over the previous ones.  Still v2.13 temps are a little lower, the total mah used is very close between the two.  A few degrees for the battery and motor and about 7 for the ESC.  Remember that when I took the temp for the ESC on v2.13 I may have botched the reading.  IMHO, the latest firmware runs very close to v2.13 but with a smoother motor start and a slightly smoother motor run.  I personally don't have any misgivings of going to the latest version of firmware v3.241/v3.20 for my Phoenix ESCs.


« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 04:42:50 PM by Crist Rigotti »
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Crist
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Offline Archie Adamisin

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 06:17:45 PM »
Thanks for the update Crist.  Glad that Castle is working so hard on there stuff.  I still would like to know why you had the heating problems you did.  I haven't been able to replicate this on the Turnigy's.  Even the Arrowind motors that Uncle Dennis has been flying haven seemed to skip a beat.  The great thing about this forum is the ability to share all these issues and get a collective answer to the problem, or at least an idea.

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana 
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 09:00:38 PM »
Archie,
I think the main problem I had with v2.16 was that it drew a lot more mah out of the batteries for the exact same set up as v2.13.  The motor and batteries were warmer but my main concern was the extra current draw.  V2.16 was not a good rev, hence the additional versions since then.  Hats off to CC for their effort to constantly improve their products.  Overall, I like the latest v3.21 but haven't flown it yet and it will be several weeks till I do.  (Ice-O-Lated in St. Louis).
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 09:23:52 PM »
 It has also become clear that there is a lot more differences in the details on how various motors work --I think the detection of when to do the commutation is a lot more sensitive to these details than I had thought.

Another thing which has been a little confusing is the number scheme of the Castle Link Software (the stuff that runs on the PC) and the firmware (the stuff that is loaded into the ESC and makes it work). The numbers are pretty close but are different, so when you talk about V2.xx, sometimes it isn't clear which version this is. (I think it is the firmware version).

But I still think I'll let the dust settle another month or so. No flying now anyway. And like I said, the older non-ICE ESC's were working pretty good as is.
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 10:12:54 PM »
Alan,
v3.421 is for the CastleLink and v3.20 is for the Phoenix ESC.
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Crist
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 04:51:02 PM »
I just tried my ICE50 for the first time---but it isn't working.

Transfered the same setup from my Phoenix 45 (low timing and 24kHz PWM rate) and I can't get the motor to get up to rpm with a prop. Without a prop, it will get up to to the target rpm, but there are some disconcerting "sputters" as it tries to ramp up. Sort of looks like it hit some fixed rpm and "loses" it. With no prop, it somehow does get past and goes on up, but with a prop (my standard "on-the-bench-test" 11-5.5 prop, it never gets past the stutter. This is a little bizarre, because it does a nice smooth start from zero (better than my Phoenix 35 and 45 ESC's), but this barrier rpm stops the works.

Looking at the data logger, the rpm "barrier" is somewhere between 1-2 krpm. Here is the plot of rpm when the ESC cuts out. This was my standard Scorpion V2-3020 motor that I was using in the Vector.
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 08:53:51 PM »
I'm running at 12khz as my standard setup. Try going to a lower PWM.
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Crist
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 10:22:25 PM »
That's what I just did and it now is working. The data logging is definitely interesting.

Strange that PWM rate would have any effect on the motor not working---it shouldn't. I wonder if the microprocessor just is getting too busy with all the work it is doing (data logging and anything else it may be up to in the new firmware) to handle the higher interrupt rate at 24kHz.

That's all I can figure since 24kHz works just fine with the old Phoenix ESC's (25-35-45), so it really isn't anything electrical with the motor inductance etc.


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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 03:02:41 PM »
I'm perfectly happy with my Phoenix ESC and Eagle Tree data logger.
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Crist
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 03:09:22 PM »
Quote from: Alan Hahn on January 16, 2010, 10:22:25 PM
Strange that PWM rate would have any effect on the motor not working---it shouldn't.

I have the same experience with jeti spin  :-\
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Castle Creations Phoenix v3.20 is released
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 02:20:47 PM »
I finally got around to it and made a test comparison of my new ICE controller, with PWM rate of 12kHz with my eVector Phoenix 45 controller with its original "eVector" settings (24kHz PWM rate).

I do note that the ICE with the 3.20 Firmware has a really nice smooth start from dead stop. The Phoenix 45 has a few intiial "burps" before it smooths out in the ramp up.

I comment that my average rpm as seen by my EagleTree data logger is ~50 rpm higher for the ICE than the Phoenix 45. I am not positive why. Both have target rpms set for 8000 rpm (which is the data you see in these two plots).

This data was taken within 10 minutes in my basement. Prop was an 11-5.5 which approximates the nominal level lap power I see in flight. I set the rotation so that the airblast was away from me and the test setup--it tends to give steadier readings when I move my hands around the motor.

So the bottom line is I see a slightly higher average power level for the ICE (240 watts) than for the Phoenix 45 (236). However since the Phoenix 45 is about an average 50 rpm lower than the ICE, I have to believe that the two ESC's are behaving just about the same.

One thing is the power fluctuations for the ICE50 are larger than the Phoenix 45. Even though I have all the ESC parameters the same between the two (except for the PWM rate), the governor gain may be running higher for the ICE firmware than the old (~V2.0) of the Phoenix. The rpm plot of the ICE is likewise a bit more noisy too.

When I look at the ICE50 plotted data and compare it to my Eagletree data, I notice the CC setup says I am running less power (90%) than the EagleTree recorder claims. The difference is coming from the current measurement. I have no idea which one is more accurate, and at the 10% level I don't really care. I include the ICE 50 plot for the same time period (and run) as the Eagletree plot.

Plot #1 is ICE50 as seen by Eagletree Data Recorder, #2 is the Phoenix 45 as seen by Eagletree data recorder, and Plot#3 is the ICE50 as seen by itself! Each plot shows ~30 seconds of running near 8000 rpm.
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