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Author Topic: Car R/C System for throttle  (Read 78774 times)

Offline Peter Germann

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Car R/C System for throttle
« on: April 04, 2015, 06:38:33 AM »
I was trying to use a simple very low cost 2.4Ghz R/C car system for throttle control in one of my F2B e-airplanes. The idea was finding out wether the use of throttle and brake would be a.) feasable and b.) helpful.

What happended when bench testing is that with the throttle trigger sitting at its neutral position, the motor immediately starts spinning quite (too) fast, leaving not enough room for acceleration in flight by pulling the trigger. Pushing the trigger from neutral to its max. fwd. position stops &brakes the motor.

What I would like to have instead is the motor running low RPM idle at neutral, accelerating to full RPM at max. trigger rearward and  stop & brake at max. fwd. trigger position.

Any suggestions on how to get this?

Thanks, Peter G.

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Peter Germann

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 08:43:18 AM »
Hey Peter:

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but if the radio will let you do it I think it'll answer your need.  I think you need to open up the radio and figure out if you can modify the trigger mechanism so that instead of returning to neutral, it returns to out (what you're calling forward).  Then pulling the trigger all the way in should give you full throttle.
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 10:40:10 AM »
I just removed the spring entirely. The throttle stays wherever you put it.
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Online Carl Cisneros

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2015, 01:00:33 PM »
Peter

what radio are you using?

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Offline john vlna

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2015, 01:36:07 PM »
With a lot of radios it is easy to remove the springs, in both the trigger and wheel. I use the cheap Hobbyking car units, I like their 3 ch, which comes with a rechargable tx battery.


PS check the carrier & scale boards for lots of info
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2015, 04:03:10 PM »
Not for all but I converted a HobbyKing radio to a handle controller.  I have an electronic back ground so I have the skills.  I replaced the trigger with a slide pot. (see picture..  But having said that have you played with the trim pots on the radio's control panel.  They set thing like motor OFF when trigger is at neutral. The instruction manual that came with the radio should get into all this.  Also their might be some set procedures to match you speed controller to the radio.   I do think it will be necessary to get rid of center off trigger position.  Once again check the radio manual.  Some times it is settable.

Ps If you come to Alabama it would be fun to help you set it up.   Also cheep airplane radios may work better.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__68580__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_4Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_2_AR_Warehouse_.html   At $27 + shipping it is set up for aircraft.  You hang it on your belt and operate it with your left hand.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 04:25:26 PM by John Rist »
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Offline Peter Mazur

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2015, 06:17:07 PM »
I have also been using a 2.4 GHz surface radio for Carrier. My choice is the Spektrum DX2E and it works quite well. This model was selected because they are easily modified to sit on a control handle. I use the standard throttle pot and trigger throw. The operation is dependent on the ESC (I use Castle.) I hold the throttle trigger at full throttle when the ESC is connected to the battery. Then I go to lowest throttle. The system is then armed and ready and the response is smooth from zero to full throttle. So maybe care in the arming procedure will help your operation.
That middle detente has been a nuisance. I have gotten by it mechanically by removing that part of the mechanism and adding a spring to pull the trigger to low throttle. But I find it is not possible to program the fail-safe to go to low throttle. Apparently the manufacturer has decided nobody would want their car to go to full reverse under failure conditions, so the radio won't work if I try to program failsafe below the detente. (Failsafe is set during the binding process for this radio.)

Pete
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Offline Peter Mazur

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2015, 06:17:59 PM »
I have also been using a 2.4 GHz surface radio for Carrier. My choice is the Spektrum DX2E and it works quite well. This model was selected because they are easily modified to sit on a control handle. I use the standard throttle pot and trigger throw. The operation is dependent on the ESC (I use Castle.) I hold the throttle trigger at full throttle when the ESC is connected to the battery. Then I go to lowest throttle. The system is then armed and ready and the response is smooth from zero to full throttle. So maybe care in the arming procedure will help your operation.
That middle detente has been a nuisance. I have gotten by it mechanically by removing that part of the mechanism and adding a spring to pull the trigger to low throttle. But I find it is not possible to program the fail-safe to go to low throttle. Apparently the manufacturer has decided nobody would want their car to go to full reverse under failure conditions, so the radio won't work if I try to program failsafe below the detente. (Failsafe is set during the binding process for this radio.)

Pete
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Offline Peter Germann

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 04:33:13 AM »
Quote from: Carl Cisneros on April 04, 2015, 01:00:33 PM
Peter,what radio are you using?

HobbyKing Product ID: 9249000805-0   Quanum 2.4Ghz 3ch Pistol Grip Tx & Rx System

Thanks for suggesting mechanical modifications of the trigger mechanism. I'll do that...

PG
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 07:33:03 AM »
I purchased one of these car TX's just to see what made them tick. Well, not really that so much but to see what was in it and how I could adapt one to CL.

I may possibly view this "transicion," cars to planes type handle, a bit differently than most, and I believe this could be because of my design background. One of the things I did for a living was graphic design and illustrations. I still do graphic design.

With that said and in my view only, this is the first time I've brought this up BTW, I believe these TX's look too large and just too top heavy. They are, after all, designed for cars.

With that said, if I was to have one for myself, my goal would be to have the "workings" below my hand or along side of my hand.

If I cannot get this accomplished, I prefer the old style 3 line handle and would run a model that has just throttle.

Anyone else see these car TX's in the same light?

If someone or a groupe of individuals agree, with a "team up," or a joint effort, a great handle could be had.

The efforts are fine but in all directions.

Just my humble opinion.
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 08:37:47 AM »
Hi Peter,

What you will need to do is to calibrate the throttle range as Peter Mazur mentioned. All of the esc's are set this way, so you should be able to do this with your set-up because it is the esc that does this function and not the R/C system. If the throttle has a trim pot that it is even better, because then you can calibrate the range with the trim full one way for a fast ideal and then with the trim full the opposite way, the motor will stop. So now when you are flying and you let go the throttle trigger, then the motor will stay running and will not brake. Then you can set it the other way so that the motor does stop in closed throttle mode. I do this on my normal 6 channel R/C system when I want to test trim settings like the rudder, and lead-out settings.

One more thing, for decent flying you still need to enable governor mode on the esc, or else the model will slow down and speed up in climbs and dives. You may think that this is not really a problem because you can simply open or close the throttle, but it's actually quite tricky to operate the throttle while flying the pattern. The next thing is that the governor range in the esc's is not from zero to full throttle so you need to keep that in mind as well. It is however very useful for certain tests and trim settings. Have fun!

Keith R
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 09:13:56 AM »
At one time somebody had a RC car radio Tx converted to a control line handle on eBay.  It is no longer listed.  not sure who it was.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 11:08:18 AM »
Quote from: John Rist on April 05, 2015, 09:13:56 AM
At one time somebody had a RC car radio Tx converted to a control line handle on eBay.  It is no longer listed.  not sure who it was.

John,

I had a conversation with him a long while back when there was another active Thread on this subject.

I believe he sells plans also.

What he offered was a car TX with bar aluminum stock with line adjustments. His product gets it done, but the item is still a car TX and looks top heavy.

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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline john vlna

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 07:49:59 PM »
After building several handles, I have gone to using two hands for most models that just use throttle and maybe one more option like retracts or a slider (carrier). I use the Hobbyking 3ch, trigger for throttle and the button on the handle for the binary function. I feel that a normal CL handle gives me a better feel of the plane that the modified converted to a handle radios did. Not sure why, but it does,
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Offline Phillip Kenney

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 11:10:40 AM »
On my trainer I am using an Associated Tx Rx and a HURC esc. The esc was able to be set with the trigger at neutral and no motion from the motor and pulling the trigger gives me full throttle. The esc does give brake and reverse but obviously not needed for flying.
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 06:22:41 PM »
I saw those R/C car transmitter conversions, and they seemed pretty heavy to me.  So I spent entirely too much time building this for 1/2A electric.  I used a left-over eFlight transmitter from a micro helicopter.  I took out the guts and made a box that will hang on the bottom of a SIG handle.  Pretty light. Ugly. But it works for me.  I also have another plane that I fly with my right hand, and hold another eFlight transmitter in my left.  Both ways work fine.








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Offline Peter Germann

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2015, 03:47:04 AM »
Quote from: Peter Germann on April 05, 2015, 04:33:13 AM
HobbyKing Product ID: 9249000805-0   Quanum 2.4Ghz 3ch Pistol Grip Tx & Rx System
Thanks for suggesting mechanical modifications of the trigger mechanism. I'll do that...
PG
What I found is that this particular car radio lacks throttle range. All I can get is 0.985 to 1.800 ms "throttle-In" which translates in my power train to 0 - 10'200 RPM. As I need to turn my 12 x 6 APC EP at 9'000 RPM to get sufficient level flight speed, this setup leaves me without sufficient upward range.
Next I' will try using a flight radio...

rgds, Peter G.
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2015, 04:03:57 AM »
Peter, if you have Jeti Spin, it is completaly configurable, so you can set regulation which will match your sender.

you can set initial and end point and responding max and min rpm as you need

spin normal:
http://www.maxbee.net/download/SPIN_EN_menu.pdf

spin PRO:
http://www.maxbee.net/download/spin_pro_schema-de-en-cz-2012.pdf
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Offline Peter Germann

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Re: Car R/C System for throttle
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2015, 08:08:57 AM »
Quote from: Igor Burger on April 15, 2015, 04:03:57 AM
Peter, if you have Jeti Spin, it is completaly configurable, so you can set regulation which will match your sender.
Thanks for the hint, Igor. I will make use of it if all other fails. As I have a couple of Castle Phoenix Ice or Edge ESC's sitting around I want to use one of them first.

As you can imagine the sole purpose of this exercise is to find out whether or not a pilot operated throttle would be of use  in serious F2B competition flying.

rgds, Peter
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Peter Germann

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