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Author Topic: brush type ESC?  (Read 1706 times)

Offline Bob Hills

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brush type ESC?
« on: March 22, 2015, 04:54:22 AM »
   
Does anyone make ESC,s for brush motors?  I have some astroflight Cobalt motors still inthe box ,never used.
Bob Hills  AMA 15512

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 07:28:41 AM »
Hobbyking shows a couple - a 20 A., a 30 A., and a 45 A.  The 30 Amp is available from the Arkansas warehouse.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 07:31:36 AM »
Maybe GWS does? If you put a wanted add up on the forsale/Wanted section of RcGroups.com(power systems section) http://www.rcgroups.com/aircraft-electric-power-systems-fs-w-285/  I'll bet you get a few offers.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 10:48:24 AM »
I assume this is for CL.  They won't have regulated speed the way that the high-end brushless ESCs do -- that's because speed measurement more or less comes for free with a brushless ESC, while measuring the speed of a brushed motor takes external sensors or Weird Science.

I believe that for stunt you'd want to gear the motors down.  And I seem to recall Dean or Bob Hunt or some other person who was involved with early electric CL experiments mentioning that gearboxes don't seem to stand up well to CL stunt.  This isn't because there's any inherent reason that it can't be done, but rather because CL stunt induces a lot of gyroscopic precession on the prop, which puts a lot of twisting load on the output shaft, and there just aren't gearboxes made for it.

Will Hubin has a sport timer that's designed for ESCs without regulation, that increases the throttle during the flight.  It's b'guess and b'gosh (but engineers call it "open loop", to raise the falutin' index), so it's definitely not as good as regulation.

Keith Renicle's timers may work if you use a Hall sensor with a magnet in the spinner.  You'd have to ask Keith if he thinks it'd pick up the 5V signal from a Hall sensor, and you'd have to make up the circuit to turn the Hall sensor signal into something compatible.

My timer's hardware has the necessary circuitry to deal with a Hall sensor, built in.  However, I haven't gotten around to writing a speed regulation algorithm into it.  Doing so, however, is toward the top of the to-do list.  If you want one of my timers and can wait for it, I can supply you with one that has regulation from a Hall sensor.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline tom hampshire

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 07:24:06 AM »
Tim, I'm the guy who tried a geared setup.  It was a planetary gearset bolted to the front of the motor, about a 2.5 to 1 speed reduction.  The motor was rear mounted.   The problem was about what you expected, the distance between the bearings supporting each pinion was too short, and the carrier way too light.  It failed as soon as any loads were imposed from even gentle maneuvers.  The next generation would be to build a U shaped mount, with the motor between the legs of the U, and a heavy, hollow jackshaft parallel to the motor axis, with big bearings at each end, and pulleys driving the jackshaft with either gears or a toothed belt.  I never bothered to build one on the theory that it would be too heavy and complex.  As things turned out, the direct drive motors are a valid off the shelf solution.  I believe Hobby Lobby offered a belt drive on this layout, but it was both too heavy and too bulky to be of much use for stunt.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 08:08:05 AM »
Dennis Adamasin also has a geared setup in the 'List your setup' section - He also said that it couldn't handle the loads of a stunt plane and quickly tore itself up.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 09:37:21 AM »
The next generation would be to build a U shaped mount, with the motor between the legs of the U, and a heavy, hollow jackshaft parallel to the motor axis, with big bearings at each end, and pulleys driving the jackshaft with either gears or a toothed belt.

No need to build, if you could find -- Graupner made a reducer like that.  I don't think I ever saw one in person, but I remember seeing it in catalogs.

If the intention is to use up some motors that are lying around, without a lot of extra effort, I think the answer is to build some nice power sailplanes and have fun thermalling.  Just my opinion, mind.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2015, 10:15:46 PM »
Back in the early days electric boats we used a rely and a servo.  It was one speed on or off.
John Rist
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Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: brush type ESC?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 08:47:36 AM »
That worked OK in RC sailplanes, also.  My first ones used a 30 amp auto relay, turned on by a servo with the motor removed that toggled the relay on at about 1/2 throttle.  I had a cheap RC car (from Radio Shack) that had a 3 speed (off, full speed, something in-between) that used two relays - one switched the motor on with a resistor in series, the other shorted out the resistor.  The speed control was built into the receiver board, and the steering was a separate servo.  Then someone published a fully proportional ESC based on a servo amplifier driving a MOSFET output circuit that would handle 25 amps or so and I threw away all my relay based stuff.  That ran at 50 hz or so (the frequency of the decoder pulse).  Then a high-frequency front end for that basic circuit was published that ran at 4 khz and the efficiency went way up.   That allowed flights of up to 15 minutes in sportier type planes, with some throttle management.  This all on 7 cell, 1700 mah packs, which was only about 200 watts at full throttle.

I think if one wanted to dink around with brushed motors in c/l planes, a Hubin timer with the 'auto increase' feature would be adequate rather than a full-blown governor.  The gearing would still be the weak link, as Dennis found out.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa


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