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Author Topic: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?  (Read 1107 times)

Offline Will Hubin

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BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« on: April 01, 2009, 09:12:22 AM »
Background: Pre-electric R/C airplanes used a receiver that was powered by a 3-pin, plug-in 5-volt NiCd battery, which also powered the 3-pin plug-in servos. Each servo uses a dc motor but the input electronics actuate the motor only if the servos are given a pulsed input, varying from 0 to 5 volts with a duration of about 0.001 second to about 0.002 seconds (1 to 2 milliseconds), at a nominal rate of about 50 times a second. When electric power arrived, it plugged into the throttle channel and therefore the ESCs (speed controllers) were designed to also control the motors, between off and maximum power, with this same 1 to 2 ms pulsed input.

And to let the motor battery also power the receiver and servos, the ESCs were designed with a BEC (battery eliminator circuit) that dropped the battery voltage down to the 5 volts required by the receiver and the servos. Finally, in our use of these ESCs, we use the BEC to power our timers (“flight managers”) that provide pre-programmed pulses to the ESC over the duration of a flight, emulating the output of the throttle channel on an R/C receiver.

Most ESCs use linear voltage regulators to convert the battery voltage to 5 volts for the BEC. These linear regulators are cheap and simple but they must dissipate power equal to the drop in voltage times the current drawn. Thus, for example, an ESC that is powered by a 5S LiPo battery (nominally 18.5 volts) and provides 0.1 ampere @5 volts to the receiver and servos must dissipate (18.5 – 5.0)(0.1A) = 1.3 watts as heat in the ESC. Because of this heat problem, ESC manufacturers limit the number and type of servos that may be powered by the BEC, based on the number of cells in the battery.

However, we don’t use receivers or servos (usually) and our timers require very little current (a few milliamperes, at most) and so (with the Phoenix ESCs, at least) I have never seen a heating problem with using the BEC to power my timers up to at least a 4S (14.8 volt) LiPo battery, even though the manufacturer says not to use the BEC to power any servos when using more than 3 cells. (For use with 5S batteries, I put a small linear regulator on the same circuit board with the timer, saving the expense and weight of an external BEC).

But R/C airplanes, especially large “3D” ones, require big and power-greedy servos to power their large surfaces, and they like voltages greater than 5 volts to increase the available torque. Some newer ESCs (including the Jeti Spin and the Hacker Pro, at present) make ESCs available that utilize switching voltage regulators that are much more efficient and can power the demanding servos even with high-voltage batteries—at a price and weight cost. We don’t really need this extra current capability—except perhaps for retract servos.

Potential problem: High BEC voltages. The timers made by Igor and me, at least, use a microcontroller chip that is specified for supply voltages between 3.0 and 5.5 volts (but with an absolute maximum voltage of 6.5 volts). I recently measured the in-circuit voltages provided by the BECs of fifteen different ESCs, by eight different manufacturers. All of the ones using linear voltage regulators provided voltages of 5.0 +/- 0.1 volt – very safe. However, a Jeti Spin 44 provided 5.554 volts, a Jeti Spin 66 provided 5.500 volts, a Hacker X-55-SB-Pro provided 5.632 volts, and a Hacker X-70-SB-PRO provided 5.644 volts. (Hacker told me that their BEC is designed to provide 5.5 volts when loaded down with the receiver and servos.)  I really don’t think these higher Hacker voltages are a problem for my chips—but, just to be very conservative, my timer for the Hackers includes a power diode to drop the voltage into the specified range. We may need to watch this trend to higher BEC voltages.

The microcontroller chips we use are really pretty rugged; I’ve received only two “blown” chips out of the hundred or so that I’ve shipped in timers and throttle emulators. These chips can be damaged with (a) reversed power supply voltages [requiring a very clever offset of two pins into the three-pin connector], (b) excessive supply voltages [don’t use the 6-volt ESCs], (c) static electricity [rare once inside a circuit], or (d) a production defect [most likely in its early life—the so-called “infant mortality” syndrome]. The very good news is that a bad chip is most unlikely to even turn on a motor, because it won’t be able to provide the pulsed output that all ESCs require, and even if it should occur during a flight, I can’t imagine it doing anything worse than shutting down the motor.

Alan Hahn

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 09:29:20 AM »
The one thing to remember is that the ESC onboard BEC also needs to supply the ESC microcontroller (that thing which is doing all the commutation and throttle PWM stuff for the brushless motors) with voltages which are probably in the 5V range too. So that is going on even for 4s, 5s, or 6s (whatever the ESC specs allow anyway!). So I figure our CL timers are just small perturbations on the ECS microcontrollers---or in the same ballpark anyway.

I think once you add a servo, with its capability of drawing ~1 amp or so in a loaded configuration, then the poor BEC starts to have issues with the large voltage drops.

I bet one way around the BEC issue--other than going to a switching type BEC would be for the ESC to hook into the balancing plug of the lipo battery. Then it could grab the first two cells and put that in the BEC. I think the receiver/RC needs for servos are still pretty small compared to the motor, so the net result would be the lower two cells would be a little out of balance. But these days, most of us balance the pack every charge anyway. I can see that there could be some issues with this technique, but I bet you could get around them with a reasonable design (like monitoring those two cells for the LVC point for example.

Just daydreaming!

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 02:25:39 PM »
Some of the ESC's that we've been using have two regulators on board - one for the ESC and one for the "stuff out on the end of the connector".   These are generally the smaller "cheap" ESC's that are limited to 3 cells. For those that have no BEC, so-called "Opto Only" (though there aren't any opto's on board) which are good for up to 7 LiPos, I have been tapping the ESC's 5 v. regulator, rather than adding an external one.  No problems so far and the output is a solid 5.0 volts (on the Suppo/BP/Supersimple ESC's).  It requires moving the red wire (in the receiver connector) from the Battery plus lead to the output leg of the on-board regulator - takes me about 5 minutes to do and I've done about 8 or 9 of them so far, with no problems noted.

Some of the ESC's have an external switching regulator, mounted about 1/2 way down the receiver lead - I remove this altogether.

I don't know about the Castle's or the Jeti's but my instinct tells me that there probably is a 5 volt regulator on board that's only job is power for the controller - after all, you would really want your microcontroller isolated from any possible servo/receiver problems.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »
The one thing to remember is that the ESC onboard BEC also needs to supply the ESC microcontroller (that thing which is doing all the commutation and throttle PWM stuff for the brushless motors) with voltages which are probably in the 5V range too.

Hmmmm ...  :! ... I would say that lot of them has 3.3V. At least you can see it on signals on servo cables going out of the ESC, most of them has impulses only 3.3V or less ... I think bullet proof solution will be such 3.3V BEC on timers ... however I think it is not necessary ... but ... who knows, Keith Reneckle told me that one of his timers does not work anymore .. that could be reason, it was on Spin and spin has switching BEC ... it can be some short overvoltage ... ???

Offline CharlesF

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 02:53:46 AM »
Hmmmm . .  .

I agree with Igor, a lightly loaded switching converter can indeed produce some interesting voltage spikes.

I recall reading a paper by an RCA guy many, many years ago on semiconductor reliability. It goes down dramatically as you approach the maximum working voltage (and also if you increase the temperature). Ever since I've always used semis with at least a 50% voltage headroom in my designs. I also guess that most speed controllers probably use Microchip PICs as their "brains" and these must have some sort of LV supply of their own from the battery, in the controller. Its a pity we cannot access this for the timer. I like the idea of a series diode; a cool way to drop 0.6V.

What about a low value resistor in the + lead to the timer, say about 68 ohms and a 4.7V zener?

One of my projects this year is to "Get into" programming PICs - my young brother is a maestro on them, but so far they are a hole in my knowledge

Charles
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 10:34:54 AM by CharlesF »

Offline Will Hubin

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 08:50:37 AM »
Just go for it, Charles. For example, the Pic 12F683 is a popular 8-bit microcontroller. It contains a precision 4 MHz oscillator, 3 timers, and a 12-bit digital voltmeter, etc.; its EE program and EE data memory can be re-used over and over again. Once you program an interrupt every 1/50th second, you can use software timing to adjust the pulse width. You can control flight parameters by embedding them in onboard EE data memory (as do most timers) or use the voltmeter to read external potentiometers. Actually, if you want only one set of parameters, you could embed them permanently in the chip and just swap chips for different sets. You can start with a breadboard circuit and an oscilloscope to check the pulse output.

Offline CharlesF

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 04:49:49 AM »
Thanks Will

Can you recommend a specific development kit? I've years of experience in analog, power and digital (CMOS) design but have not used PIC's

Charles

Offline Will Hubin

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 07:38:05 PM »
Probably the best starter kit is from the manufacturer, Microchip. The PicStart Plus includes a programmer with a 40-pin zero-insertion-force socket, Microchip's IDE (Integrated Development Environment) with the assembler (easily updated on-line as new chips become available), their PIC Lite C compiler, and a sample 14-pin Pic 16F84. All of their chips up to 40 pins can be programmed with this programmer, which connects through a serial port. DigiKey (2624 page catalog or website of www.digikey.com) offers this at $199.99 (Part No. DV00301-ND). They also carry most of the hundreds of available Microchip chips, all with the same basic instruction set. Recently they've expanded to 16-bit processors, which I haven't tried, because their 8-bit processors are fine for most all small-scale applications. They use CMOS technology and are very low in power requirements, and typically are specified for supply voltages from 2 to 5.5 volts. All of the chips with a middle letter of "F" are electrically erasable, both for the program memory and the data memory.

The instruction set is pretty quirky but very short, so you might be more comfortable with a "C" compiler. There are also inexpensive Basic compilers for the PIC chips, as well as more full-featured C and BASIC compilers. The only electronics magazine for enthusiasts that still remains (as far as I know) is "Nuts and Volts", and they carry many articles using PIC microcontrollers and contain many advertisements for books "e.g., "Programming 8-bit PIC Microcontrollers in C" by Martin P. Bates) and breadboard kits and compilers.

I started with a perfboarded circuit with an 8-pin socket so I could keep trying until I got what I wanted for the output. Since you want a pulse output, it does call for an oscilloscope. I have an LCD-based solid-state Tekronix scope that I used a lot, including checking every timer that I make.

Offline CharlesF

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Re: BEC voltages -- a potential problem?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 03:27:04 AM »
Thanks for the information!

I have a Tek 3012B as well as a USB dual-channel scope I use with my laptop. Also of course power supplies, proto boards, R's and C's - and a frequency counter.

Charles


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