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Author Topic: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball  (Read 1081 times)

Online Brent Williams

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Curious about bearing replacements on electric motors.  Are the hybrid ceramic ball bearings worthwhile?

This is for a Badass 3515 that groans in every corner in my 63oz plane with a 12x6e 2-blade prop.  These BA 3515 motors come with NSK grade C3 clearance bearings.  C3 rating is listed as "greater than normal clearance," The extra internal clearance allows expansion due to high speeds or temperatures.  625HZZ (16mmx 5mm x 5mm) and 685HZZ (11mmx 5mm x 5mm).

I think the 2-blade prop combined with the cantilevered nature of rear mounted motors (and possibly the slightly extra clearance of C3 bearings) could be causing the magnets to encounter the stator under load in the corners.   Other folks using this exact same mounting method and the light Igor 3-blade props do not experience the same noise in corners as my 2-blade setup.  I have tried 3 different types of 12x6e 2-blade props with the same noise result, APC, Xoar Wood and Badass wood. 
I am contemplating a change to ceramic ball bearings with 2 steps tighter tolerance rating, to a C2 clearance to try and clear up this motor noise problem.

Front mounting may be the final answer for this problem with a 2-blade on this plane.  That, or a switch to lightweight 16g 3-blade props and to only fly off of pavement. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 08:03:10 PM by Brent Williams »
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Offline spare_parts

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2023, 07:41:54 AM »
A name brand bearing is all you need. If you're OK with slightly shorter life even the cheapest bearing will be OK. Ball bearings in electric motors have a relatively easy life, little vibration, little heat, low RPM (relative to their size), and until the inevitable crash or prop strike, low load. Motors running spur gear drives do put load on the output bearing and often pay for it in life. I think the biggest difference between 1$ bearings and name brand is the risk of premature failure, essentially DOA junk.

The only difference in bearing quality which you may notice is noise, but even then in small sizes it's merely a little hiss. In a model, the prop and switching noise far exceeds bearing noise.

I can't think of a reason to justify hybrids for a typical electric motor.

Greg

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2023, 09:10:51 AM »
One and two blade props have mass concentrated in only one line, that makes precession vibrate with them (the gyro moment is harmonically changing during one revolution). The solution is 3 blade prop having mass distributed in whole area of prop, so gyro moment is constant during one revolution.

However we found that there is one dirty solution for your problem also with 2 blade prop. Try disbalanced or little bit "bent" prop in some direction, so that it will make constant force in shaft, it will press bearing to one side and it will be silent  VD~

... sometimes better to be silent  ;D

Offline Motorman

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2023, 09:11:10 AM »
I agree, chrome steel bearings are fine. I would stay in the meaty part of the price point and not cheap out too much. I use hybrid ceramic but just for the ego. As small as they are they don't cost all that much but provide a great mental boost. C-3, C-4 fit is standard, if you go to C-2 you might get binding unless the bearing pockets are perfectly aligned and the bearings are perfectly installed and they stay that way. They're really more for precision instuments than running motors. You can take the motor apart and look for scuffing but I suspect the noise is just prop flex/turbulance.

MM 8)

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2023, 01:37:09 PM »
While we are on the subject of 3515's I have one plane that makes the normal quick spin in the rotation direction when the esc arms and another one that just grunts and moves the prop about 1/2".  Both spin up normally and fly fine.  Is that the motor or something in the ESC.  It is almost like it is getting spin up commands in both directions at the same time!

Anybody else experienced this?  Spin Pro ESC.

Ken
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Offline John Rist

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2023, 08:45:51 AM »
While we are on the subject of 3515's I have one plane that makes the normal quick spin in the rotation direction when the esc arms and another one that just grunts and moves the prop about 1/2".  Both spin up normally and fly fine.  Is that the motor or something in the ESC.  It is almost like it is getting spin up commands in both directions at the same time!

Anybody else experienced this?  Spin Pro ESC.

Ken
It would be the ESC.  Need to set the throttle end points on the one that just burps a 1/2". It's idle end point (OFF end point) is set too high.  Your ESC or timer instructions should have a how to on this.
John Rist
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Offline Bill Schluckbier

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2023, 11:55:46 AM »
I had a little bit of a screech on a model which as it turned out could be fixed by changing the settings on the ESC. Not sure if it is the same problem but it might be worth a try.  The motor would normally make the noise when loaded such as when flying a square loop.  I was using Castle's and had to update the firmware to a newer version (I fly RC as well, so there were recycled units that I was no longer using).  After updating the software I changed the PWM setting to one of the higher values, I think either 8Khz or 12Khz and the problem went away.

Online Brent Williams

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2023, 12:15:31 PM »
I solved the noise problem for now.  I removed the BA 3515/580kv and replaced it with a spare BA 2826/690kv.  It is now very quiet in flight. 

The rear collet on the 5mm shaft was a bit loose on the 3515.  This was allowing the can on the motor to move fore/aft a fair amount.  That was the likely the culprit for the unpleasant grinding noises in the turns.  I will disassemble the motor to see if there are any scuffing marks on the magnets or stator and I'll possibly replace the bearings while I'm at it.  Compared directly, the new 2826 has almost zero fore/aft free-play.  I do like that 2826 uses 3 bearings.  Seems like 3 bearings would support everything slightly better in a rear-mount, 2-blade setup like mine.  There is a lot of cantilevered forces happening.

To satisfy my curiosity, I pulled the Castle ESC data log for my two test flights with the 2826 motor.  The log shows this motor only pulled 442 watts and 21.2 amps at peak with the 12x6e APC at 9250'ish rpm.  The data indicated that I used around 1380mAh of the (P26a) 6S-2600 li-ion battery, (which was only charged up to 4.15v per cell.)  I was relieved to see that voltage sag is not much of a concern with this combo, as the voltage was only pulled down to a few low blips of 3.3v per cell during the overhead-8 and clover.  It is reassuring to know that using the 690KV motor, there is plenty battery voltage headroom on tap, and I am nowhere near the 2.7v sag prevention cutoff setting that many discuss.   When I checked the battery a few minutes after landing, I saw ~3.6v per cell on my meter. 

Glad to find (but not surprised) that the BA 2826/690kv is also a pretty happy combo in this plane.  The 2826 tugs this 64oz plane along with just as much authority as the 3515 it replaced.  5.3 lap, using 69ft .018" lines.  I'll just fly the Sultan in this configuration for a while and use the repaired 3515 in something else. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 05:18:54 PM by Brent Williams »
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: BA 3515 Motor noise - Bearing replacement to C2, Hybrid ceramic ball
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2023, 09:13:52 PM »
Brent,
I used to run 2826's till I moved to Texas.  The 2826 just runs hotter so I switched to the 3515 which runs cooler.
Crist
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