News:


  • June 03, 2024, 09:54:51 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: A question regarding battery storage  (Read 1259 times)

Offline Jim Fruit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
A question regarding battery storage
« on: February 17, 2012, 11:24:32 AM »
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that lithium polymer batteries are best stored at 60% capacity. I have a set of four Flight Power EON X30 4350 mAh 3S lipo's that about three months ago I discharged about 1600 mAh each (40% +/-) for their winter storage. Yesterday I thought I would give those batteries a bit of an exercising just to make sure they are staying fresh. To my surprise, each battery took only about 160 mAh of charge to be fully charged. I was not aware that a lithium polymer battery would self refresh like that. Is this typical or am I doing something wrong? Any thoughts will be appreciated.

Jim Fruit

Offline John Cralley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1235
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 11:52:37 AM »
I seriously doubt that your idea of self refresh for your batteries!!  y1

My guess is that you either discharged them by only 160 mah or that you actually recharged them by 1600 mah.

Is it possible that you misread your charger/discharger by a factor of ten???  ;D
John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
AMA 52183
Central Illinois

Offline Jim Fruit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 01:17:51 PM »
John:

I noticed the relationship of the charge/discharge numbers also. I am using the Triton 2 charger. It requires you to set the type of battery and its capacity, it then paces the charge or discharge rate. I just let it discharge until it indicated that it had used approximately 1600 mAh. This reads directly from the display. If I remember correctly it took approximately 45 minutes to do that, so I don't think I was making a ten times mistake.

I could more easily understand your point about charging by 1600 mAh in lieu of discharging by that amount. My charger not only indicates on the display, but it also turns on an internal fan during discharge so there is an audible difference. I think I am going to try it again. Thanks for your help.

Jim Fruit

Online Crist Rigotti

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3862
  • Electric - The future of Old Time Stunt
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 01:28:26 PM »
Storage mode for lipos are usually stated in voltages i.e. 3.8v per cell.
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Jim Fruit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 02:32:18 PM »
Crist:

This is why I was not too excited about learning a new system (electrics). Now that I have switched, I will never go back. The problem is, I am always behind the curve and always learning.

Are you indicating that the Lipo should be stored at 3.8V? I thought that a single Lipo cell was rated at 3.7V max. (I will say that I have seen 12.4V on my fully charged 3S's). Curiouser and curiouser. I guess I never will completely understand this stuff. I am lucky that the batteries seem to be holding up.

Jim Fruit

Offline Dean Pappas

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 03:22:26 PM »
Hi Jim,
Fully charged and no load it's 4.2V per cell.
mostly charged and under load it's 3.7V or less and at the end of the flight 3.3 or 3.4V per cell.
at storage charge and under no load it's 3.8V and that really is close to 75% or 80% charged.
If you find a plot of voltage versus state of charge, it's just below the "tail" at full charge starts.
Remember, loaded and no-load numbers cannot be compared.

Hope that helped,
  Dean P.
Dean Pappas

Offline Jim Fruit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 06:02:35 PM »
Thanks Dean.

JHF

Online Crist Rigotti

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3862
  • Electric - The future of Old Time Stunt
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 08:34:10 PM »
Crist:

This is why I was not too excited about learning a new system (electrics). Now that I have switched, I will never go back. The problem is, I am always behind the curve and always learning.

Are you indicating that the Lipo should be stored at 3.8V? I thought that a single Lipo cell was rated at 3.7V max. (I will say that I have seen 12.4V on my fully charged 3S's). Curiouser and curiouser. I guess I never will completely understand this stuff. I am lucky that the batteries seem to be holding up.

Jim Fruit

Jim,
We use 3.7v per cell when figuring the average voltage of the battery.  A 3S battery is figured at 11.1 volts etc.   Store your lipos at 3.8 volts per cell with no load on them.
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Jeff Traxler

  • T-Bone
  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 10:30:54 AM »
Hi Guys,
     I have been trying to keep my batteries at the correct voltage for storage.What is the correct temp a battery should be stored at?Will freezing hurt them?
                                                              Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Dean Pappas

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 12:13:32 PM »
Hi Jeff,
Freezing is very very bad!
45F controlled is very good.
That means the refrigerator is probably out of the question, but the attached garage or cold corner of the basement is good over the Winter.
sorry 'bout that,
  Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Andrew Borgogna

  • Andy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1188
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 09:39:08 PM »
When it come to storage capacity, I have measured every brand new battery before the first charge and regardless of who is making them they all come in at approximately 50% charge.  Now maybe they are all be made by the same company in China and are branded for whoever is selling them or maybe they know something.  Anyway I shoot for 50% when I am taking down a fully charged battery or I just store them where they end up after a flight.  Generally 22% to 30% depending on the plane.  I always store them in the fridge in a plastic bag.  I received have all kinds of recommendations from all kinds of experts and quite frankly I am not sure anybody knows the answer for what is best percentage of capacity and what temperature is best.  Maybe the engineers who design Li Poly batteries know and if there is one out there please speak up.
Andy
Andrew B. Borgogna

Online Warren Wagner

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 275
  • Bradenton, FL
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 04:23:46 PM »
Hi Jeff,
Freezing is very very bad!
45F controlled is very good.
That means the refrigerator is probably out of the question, but the attached garage or cold corner of the basement is good over the Winter.
sorry 'bout that,
  Dean


Dean,

I believe that a typical refrigerator temperature is around 40 degrees.   It seems like that would be reasonably close to the 45 degrees that you suggest.

Winters in Central NY can give garage temperatures below freezing, and 'cold corner' basement temperatures 15-20 degrees above that 45 degree target.

My plans are to buy one of those small "dormitory refrigerators", than I can sent the temperature for what every I want (when we figure out what that is), avoid contact with food, and can place it in the safest location.

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge of all things modeling......I read every word.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner
Warren Wagner
AMA 1385

Offline Clancy Arnold

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1453
  • I am 5 Ft. 8 In., the Taube is 7 Ft. 4 In.
Re: A question regarding battery storage
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 12:49:53 PM »
Jim
I am into electrics only as far as powering the electronics in my glow powered CL models. 
I bought an "iMax B6AC" charger  as it looked to be the best charger for the money for my needs which is NiMH and NiCad battery care.  I put the name in Quotes as it is not an iMax B6AC but a copy.  I have been suspicious of how it performs and I have performed a few tests.  By hooking accurate meters on while it is charging or discharging I have become suspect of any thing it says!
This charger is rated for 0.1 to 5.0 Amps charge current.  Here are the actual verses indicated charge currents I have measured:
Selected - Actual
0.1 A - .052 A
0.2 A - .156 A
0.3 A - .259 A
0.4 A - .362 A
0.5 A - .467 A
0.6 A - .570 A
0.7 A - .674 A
0.8 A - .778 A
0.9 A - .893 A
1.0 A - 1.00 A

I did not test it to higher currents as 0.9 A is the highest charge current recommended for the batteries I have.  I have only tested the discharge current at the 0.5 A and it measured 0.518 A.

I think this may explain some of your problem.

I am upset with the batteries I bought this winter.  NiMH Batteries rated at 1800 maH when charged at the recommended rate of 180 ma for 15 hours (2700 maH) will only provide slightly less than 500 maH power on discharge down to 1.0 V per cell.
Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here