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Author Topic: 4 cell & 5 cells  (Read 759 times)

Online Larry Wong

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4 cell & 5 cells
« on: February 04, 2010, 04:33:57 PM »
Just wondering if I was using a 4 cell 4350 14.8v and change to a 5 cell 4350 18.5V what would I gain beside size and weight?
Larry

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Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 05:40:28 PM »
Well that's 25% more power available - if you can extract it. I hope Crist chimes in here - he tried what he thought would be oversize batteries in his "Resolve" last year and then reported the results with several props.  You'd have to go back and re-read that thread to see the entire history.  As I recall, his bottom line was that he had a hard time really making his battery usage climb significantly.

The airplane, air speed, and line length set the amount of work that is to be done.  If you keep all those things constant then all you have to work with is prop size.   Flatter pitch (i.e. use the 13x4.5 in place of the 13x6.5 or 12x6) with the higher RPM available will nudge your power usage up - but the change will not be that dramatic unless you change the amount of work being done.  If you have a less efficient prop  or put a streamer behind the airplane - then you are changing the work load.   

I think a more profitable exercise is to replace the 4Sx4350 with a 5Sx3480  or a 6Sx2900 and see if you can score a weight save or size save.  The higher cell counts always result in lower current draw and less heat i the pack too.  Of course you still need to match the KV to the pack and the intended speed.
Denny Adamisin
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 06:30:53 PM »
Dennis pretty uch hit it on the head.  I flew with slightly oversized (mah) then I really needed.  I got them during the winter last year and wanted to be sure they were big enough to experiment with.  I did a fair amount of experimentation with prop sizes and such.  A typical flight was about 2300mah vs a 3400mah pack.
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Online Larry Wong

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 07:07:02 PM »
How about the Volt difference?
Larry

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Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 07:29:34 PM »
How about the Volt difference?

More volts requires fewer amps for given power.  Fewer amps means less heat.  (& vice versa)

As Alan Hahn has so eloquently pointed out so many times, assuming we can find the right match of motor kv and cell capacity, it really does not matter how we slice & dice the cell count.  The wattage must be met and can be met in many different ways...
Denny Adamisin
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As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Alan Hahn

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 08:25:32 PM »
Just wondering if I was using a 4 cell 4350 14.8v and change to a 5 cell 4350 18.5V what would I gain beside size and weight?

A bigger spark when you plug the pack in! #^

You can run a higher rpm, if that is the idea and you are at the limit with your current setup.

If you need the extra capacity, that will work, although it is a bit tougher on the motor and ESC to extract the same power, but with the throttle setting ~20% lower. But unless you have really undersized the motor and ESC (which I doubt), they can probably easily handle it.

Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 01:34:37 AM »
Hi Larry,

For our CLPA purposes we need to move up from a 14.8V battery to an 18.5 battery when our planes start to get over 65 oz. and over 650 sq in and/or really thick wings. This is the normal way to get the added power needed for a larger mission. (we do this all the time in ERC)

More Volts = More power .... as others have wisely said: "IF the motor/ESC is designed to take it and with the correct KV/prop for the mission".


My P-47 looks like it will be around 69+/- oz (scale stuff added ;-) with a 680 sq in medium thick wing and lots of  big fuselage drag. I never considered using less than an 18.5V battery to power the Plentenberg Orbit 25. This is the same power system used by Paul Walker. Bob also used 18.5V in his T-Rex after finding out that 14.8V was not giving enough power to fly a good pattern.

I use an 8S,  29.6V battery in my 2 meter size Yak-54 at 9 lbs. This works well. :-)

Our medium size (25 lb) IMAC ERC planes use 44.4V 10,000 mAh batteries. (4 batteries to get this)

YOUR NEW PLANE:

If that beautiful new take-apart plane of yours is going to be more than 60 oz. you may want to go with a 5S 18.5V battery. ..... I like Dave and Paul's philosophy: "more power helps a lot!" ;-)

Thunder power just reduced most of their battery prices by 25%, they make great batteries and now they are a very good value. ..... But I have switched to the excellent Hyperion batteries. They are perfect for CLPA. They have 4 times the duty cycle of other batteries, they use a new type of construction and high quality materials that allow a safe 5C charge rate using a balancer during charge (I'm not brave enough to use 5C but I do use 3C and get full Charge in <20 min. :-). These Hyperion batteries only cost $128 for a 5S and only $103 for the 4S. They are also the perfect shape for our use. .... I would still use them even if they cost more than the TP batteries.

Regards,  H^^


 
Rudy
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Alan Hahn

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Re: 4 cell & 5 cells
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2010, 10:01:44 AM »
I'll make my standard comment: y1

There is no power difference/advantage between a low-volt/high-amp (and higher kV motor) and a high-volt/low amp (and lower kV motor) setup.

Yes the high amp needs an ESC that can handle the amps, and the high volt needs an ESC that can handle the higher voltage (not much of an issue for 6s or less).

Heating/efficiency of battery and motor are simply the same. Battery weight is nominally the same, just fewer but larger cells for the high amp case vs more but smaller cells for the high voltage case. Of course actual manufacturer sizes makes this slightly inexact statement.

Other issues are of a practical nature, mainly being the kV's that motor manufacturer's produce.


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