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Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Crist Rigotti on September 29, 2011, 01:48:28 PM
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Here's my winter build project. I'll do a build log on it.
WS: 55.5 in.
WA: 585 sq in.
A/R: 5.23
Est WT: 50 oz.
Tail Volume: 28%
Motor: Scorpion SII-3020-710kv
ESC: ICE Lite 50
Battery: TP 5S 2700mah ProLite
Edited to note final selection on motor and added weight and balance sheet. 12/21/2011
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Nice Crist, picked out a name for it yet?
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Nice Crist, picked out a name for it yet?
I'll paint it up like the Thunderbirds. How about Thundervolt?
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Planes like that are out of fashion now. You gotta keep up with the times, Crist. Maybe read GQ.
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That's it Crist, you nailed it, that's the definitive name.
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Planes like that are out of fashion now. You gotta keep up with the times, Crist. Maybe read GQ.
Yeah, I know. I'm a year late huh?
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Crist,
Sweet, I like the jet look. Good talking with you last weekend, thanks for the wood again.
James
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My 2012 Stunter will be an Electric ARF Nobler. :)Flew it today3/12/2012 for 2 flight's and 2 minutes each flight , needs a little trim but has enough power and the ballance seems wright.
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Crist
Is that motor a 3020 size or a 3026 size ? Can't find that P/N ? :)
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Mongo like!
Dean #^
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Crist
Is that motor a 3020 size or a 3026 size ? Can't find that P/N ? :)
Dan,
The plane will be built to take either the 3020 or 3026 size motors. The p/n for the 3026 is SII-3026-710. If I am to use the 3020 size motor I'll have to have one wound specially for 710kv. I'm exploring other motors.
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Crist
Won't the 3020 780kv version work ? Does it have to be 710 ? Not much difference, No ? :-\
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Crist
Won't the 3020 780kv version work ? Does it have to be 710 ? Not much difference, No ? :-\
The 780 should work. At 9800 RPM the 710 is at 75% max rpm, while the 780 is at 68% max rpm. Don't know what running at 68% compared to 75% will do.
Anybody want to weigh in?
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Crist
I am a novice at this E-Stunt deal, but I think the 3026 mtr. is too much mtr.. The reason your post caught my attention is because I looking to build a similar size airplane (a profile) and was going to use the 3020 mtr.. And mine would probably weigh more than your projected weight. I'm sure someone will post info (Dennis are you out there ?), and help us both out. ;D
Dan
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Crist
I am a novice at this E-Stunt deal, but I think the 3026 mtr. is too much mtr.. The reason your post caught my attention is because I looking to build a similar size airplane (a profile) and was going to use the 3020 mtr.. And mine would probably weigh more than your projected weight. I'm sure someone will post info (Dennis are you out there ?), and help us both out. ;D
Dan
A 3026 motor would be too much, unless I need the weight. :)
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Weight ? That's what cast iron props are for ! LL~
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Planes like that are out of fashion now....
Fashions come and go. This one is a couple of years ahead of its time LL~
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The 780 should work. At 9800 RPM the 710 is at 75% max rpm, while the 780 is at 68% max rpm. Don't know what running at 68% compared to 75% will do.
Anybody want to weigh in?
Hi All,
A teeny bit more heat and better (faster) governing due to the additional voltage overhead.
As long as you aren't borderline over-stressing the motor to start with ... go for it.
Dean
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Hi All,
A teeny bit more heat and better (faster) governing due to the additional voltage overhead.
As long as you aren't borderline over-stressing the motor to start with ... go for it.
Dean
Dean,
Thanks for the short concise answer! Looks like a good motor to use on a 5S set up!
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Day 1 of cutting balsa. It is October 1st. My building season has begun. Flying season isn't over, but building season has started. I plan on redoing the plans in post #1 so they show up better and they have a lot of details added. Enough added that I can start building.
I started on the stab because it is fairly easy and can be built in an evening. Also, I have to get back into working with balsa so the stab it is.
The stab LE, TE, and tips are made up from 3/16 and 1/32 9# balsa. 9# balsa was chosen because it will provide some additional stiffness. I added some unidirectional CF to the LE and TE for stiffness. It is .007 thick. The cross members are from 8# 3/32 balsa. The sheeting is 6.5# .077 balsa. The tips are faced with 1/32 basswood to provide a nice clean durable edge.
The TE is laminated using 2 pieces of 3/16 balsa and 1 piece of 1/32 balsa to form the hinge pocket. The 1/32 is skipped wherever a hinge is to be located. My hinges are exactly centered using this method. Another benefit is that almost from the beginning, my hinge slots are done! After sanding smooth the total width will be slightly over 3/8 thick.
As the stab sits right now it is sanded smooth but the LE and TE have to be rounded. It weighs 47 grams. Add about 14 grams for the Monokote and 8 grams for the elevator horn the total is 69 grams. I budgeted 60 grams. Rounding the LE and TE and final sanding will get me within 4 or 5 grams of budget.
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I like it, keep building.
Allen Brickhaus
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The fin and rudder are next.
I used 3/32 7# balsa and 10# 1/32 balsa to make the fin and rudder. As usual, the 1/32 is cut out to form the hinge slot. The grain is different to the sides to form a "plywood" assembly. I used slow setting epoxy for both of these assemblies becuase it gives me more time to work. The epoxy also helps "stabilize" the assembly. I use 3/4 masking tape to prevent the epoxy getting into the hinge slot.
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The fin and rudder are finished except for rounding and final sanding. They came out nice and stiff. Shouldn't be any warping when the finish is applied.
The fin weighs 15 grams and the rudder 3 grams. After rounding and final sanding, then trimming the bottom of the fin to match the fuselage top, I think I'll be right on budget of 20 grams for both.
I took a picture to show the hinge slots in the fin and rudder.
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Crist,
Great stuff. Keep it coming. H^^ H^^ H^^
DennisV
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Crist
Very nice work. I like your method for the hinges. Never thought of it. Way to go Sir !
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The flaps and elevators are next. They will be made up of 3/16 sheet and 1/32 balsa.
The elevators are made up of 6# 3/16 balsa and 10# 1/32 balsa. The same method is used as the fin and rudder. The hinge slots are masked off to prevent epoxy getting into the hinge slot. After spreading on the epoxy, the masking tape is removed and the sheets are assembled, weighted and left to dry overnight. The hinge slot is left as "pure" wood. The hinges are 1/32 thick (Klett) and this way the only thing in the slot is the hinge.
The flaps are made up just like the elevators. I used 7# 3/16 and 10# 1/32 balsa for their make up.
After they are made, I'll taper them using the rod method from 3/8 to 3/32.
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I thought I'd show what I use to spread out the epoxy. It is a piece of 1/16 birch ply. The corners are rounded to prevent gouging the balsa. The notches are about 1/32 deep about every 1/8 to 3/16 inch.
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The flaps and elevators are next. They will be made up of 3/16 sheet and 1/32 balsa.
The elevators are made up of 6# 3/16 balsa and 10# 1/32 balsa. The same method is used as the fin and rudder. The hinge slots are masked off to prevent epoxy getting into the hinge slot. After spreading on the epoxy, the masking tape is removed and the sheets are assembled, weighted and left to dry overnight. The hinge slot is left as "pure" wood. The hinges are 1/32 thick (Klett) and this way the only thing in the slot is the hinge.
The flaps are made up just like the elevators. I used 7# 3/16 and 10# 1/32 balsa for their make up.
After they are made, I'll taper them using the rod method from 3/8 to 3/32.
I use this same method to make hinge pockets for flaps and elevators, but I like to put the 1/32 center lamination across the grain of the two other sheets.
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I use this same method to make hinge pockets for flaps and elevators, but I like to put the 1/32 center lamination across the grain of the two other sheets.
Allan,
For the flaps and elevators I have the grain parallel with the TE on the 3/16 sheets and the grain running parallel with the LE on the 1/32 sheet. This way I do get some cross grain. Never had a problem with this method.
Your method would give true crossgrain construction.
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Crist,
Great build thread. I'll definitely be using some of these ideas in the future.
Thanks for taking the time to take detailed pictures and post your progress.
Jason
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Not much got done tonight. I took the weights off the flaps and elevators. Nice and stiff, but a bit heavy. I'll continue to build them and when done, I'll weight them and see what I'll do.
The pictures show how I locate the elevator control horn and clips. I cut out some 1/32 plywood 3/4 wide x 1 1/2 long. I use them to locate the elevator to the TE. I mark on the TE where the horn is to be located. This location is usually not quite centered. I place the horn with the clips at this mark and mark the elevators. After marking, I use a right triangle to mark the elevator where the clip is supposed to go. This makes the clip 90 degrees to the LE. While I'm at it, I mark the tips too.
I cut the elevator and sand it to the line previously made. I put the elevators back on the stab using the 1/32 plywood tabs and do a check fit of the horn and its clips. Once good, glue on the clips making sure they are centered on the elevator. I'll do this tomorrow.
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I like the new build. May have to try them sometime if I can remember. H^^
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I have been out of town lately but now have the elevators "blocked" out. I have installed the elevator horn clips, sized and edged the elevators with 1/32 basswood. The one picture shows the "pocket" that I build into the root of the RH elevator for the Rabe rudder linkage.
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Looking great so far, Crist! I especially like the various tips you are including with the build.
Bill
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Crist,
Great build.
Howard said: "Planes like that are out of fashion now. You gotta keep up with the times, Crist. Maybe read GQ."
There is no longer an "In Fashion" style. For once, just about anything goes. The electrics will be opening new doors. This is a wonderful time for entry of new airplane designs with nostalgia, racing, scale like, jet, twins, retracts, wider more realistic fuselages, futuristic styling , and more. People are also realizing that the bias for or against certain styles have for the most part disappeared. While the "Classic Era" could be considered the Golden Age" of stunt, we are now entering the "Platinum Age" of stunt design. This is exciting.
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ANothe great project and build thread. THANKS for all the pix and commentary.
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Thanks Bill, Tom, and Dennis.
On to finishing the elevators. I'm using tapered elevators on this model and after reading the thread about tapered flaps in the building section, I decided to use the "Perret Bar" method.
This method works slick, but you must be careful to set everything up correctly. Thank you Allan! I didn't have any 1/4 aluminum bar stock but had some 1/8 which I used. For the front rod I used some 3/8 diameter steel with 1/32 ply epoxied to the "bottom" of the rod every so often. I did this to stabilize the rod and also a way to "adjust" the height. I added 4 layers of masking tape to the bottom of the 1/32 ply to get it to the correct height. Sanding in the taper was easy and I did the top on both elevators, then readjusted the bars and sanded the bottom taper on both elevators. This assured that both elevators would be tapered the same.
After sanding the LE round, I sanded in the hinge barrel pockets. I use a tool that I made from some 1/2 balsa, 1/8 lite ply and a piece of 1/16 plywood. I used the masking tape to adjust the depth of the "pocket" to match the Klett hinges that I'm using.
I then rounded the LE and TE of the stabilizer. I like rounded TE's of the wing/stabilizer and rounded LE's of flaps/elevators. I believe that it promotes a smoother airflow from the wing/stabilizer to the flap/elevator.
Between the stabilizer, elevator horn, and elevator I'm over budget by 12 grams. I'm going with the stabilizer and we'll see what I do with the elevators. I have to see after I build the wing and fuselage then decide if I keep them solid or if I hollow them and install "ribs" to lighten them.
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I'll paint it up like the Thunderbirds. How about Thundervolt?
So Crist, you're gonna have a red white and blue plane now? :##
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I'm using tapered elevators on this model and after reading the thread about tapered flaps in the building section, I decided to use the "Perret Bar" method.
This method works slick, but you must be careful to set everything up correctly. Thank you Allan! I didn't have any 1/4 aluminum bar stock but had some 1/8 which I used. For the front rod I used some 3/8 diameter steel with 1/32 ply epoxied to the "bottom" of the rod every so often. I did this to stabilize the rod and also a way to "adjust" the height. I added 4 layers of masking tape to the bottom of the 1/32 ply to get it to the correct height.
Fantastic, glad to see you use my method. Even gave it a name. I used a combination of 1/4" and 1/8" aluminum bars, thats what I had on hand at the time. You do have to be finicky with the setup. You can do it by eyeball if you are real accurate with the centerline marking. Another way would be calculate the bar heights and them make a step guage reference for setting them. For LE sanding stop I use either hard wood or even hard balsa square section. Before start sanding use black marker to make it black. Now as soon as you sand down to the stop you will know, as you cut into the black layer. I put piece of tape on the aluminum stops for same purpose.
Great looking build Crist, keep it going.
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Fantastic, glad to see you use my method. Even gave it a name. I used a combination of 1/4" and 1/8" aluminum bars, thats what I had on hand at the time. You do have to be finicky with the setup. You can do it by eyeball if you are real accurate with the centerline marking. Another way would be calculate the bar heights and them make a step guage reference for setting them. For LE sanding stop I use either hard wood or even hard balsa square section. Before start sanding use black marker to make it black. Now as soon as you sand down to the stop you will know, as you cut into the black layer. I put piece of tape on the aluminum stops for same purpose.
Great looking build Crist, keep it going.
Allan,
I was thinking of making some step gauges! I saw in your photos that you used a magic marker on the hardwood LE stop. Good idea. I used masking tape on the TE bars too!
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So Crist, you're gonna have a red white and blue plane now? :##
Yup, just like always. y1
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On to the wing. I'm using Bob Hunt's Lost Foam Wing construction. I made my own jig seeing I can cut foam. :)!
I made a drawing of the wing planform with all the rib and spar lines extended so it would be easier to mark their locarion on the foam. I cut out the blanks, both being equal. In reality the wing has 1/2 inch offset to it, but the jig halves will be identical except for the RH tip rib location. Traced the rib and spar locations on them. Located a center line around the perimeter, and cut the cores. Sanded the flash off and then trued the bottom halves to be equal so I don't build in a warp. Then glued them with some 30 minute epoxy. I used some masking tape in 'tension" to hold them together. I then sanded and rounded the LE of the cores.
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Tonight I continued to work on the LF jig. I drew the spar, ribs, and TE locations on the foam. I also cut out each section of foam. Next I'll sand and add the glue to the edges of the sections in preparation to cutting out and shaping the ribs. I'll also cut out a LE buck in the next day or 2.
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Back on the LF jig. I rubbed carpenters glue along the edges of the foam to strengthen the foam against sanding the ribs to shape. The LE buck is next.
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A big thanks for showing the foam work Crist! How do/did you section the core while leaving the beds intact?
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A big thanks for showing the foam work Crist! How do/did you section the core while leaving the beds intact?
Bill,
I used the top as the bottom bed when doing the sectioning.
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Howard said: "Planes like that are out of fashion now. You gotta keep up with the times, Crist. Maybe read GQ."
There is no longer an "In Fashion" style. For once, just about anything goes. The electrics will be opening new doors. This is a wonderful time for entry of new airplane designs with nostalgia, racing, scale like, jet, twins, retracts, wider more realistic fuselages, futuristic styling , and more. People are also realizing that the bias for or against certain styles have for the most part disappeared. While the "Classic Era" could be considered the Golden Age" of stunt, we are now entering the "Platinum Age" of stunt design. This is exciting.
Tom,
That was an inside joke from Howard. Crist's new plane looks like the little brother of the plane I have been flying for the last 2 years. Next years planes will have a different shape, thus Howard's comment.
Paul Walker
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Tonight I made the LE buck. The plywood base is from some unused wood flooring left over from a remodel.
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Last night I discovered that I made a mistake when doing the CAD drawings of the wing. I was measuring the LE buck for the width of the sheeting and the tip width seemed to be almost as wide as the root. I also noticed that the spar location was well aft of the high point. I went to my drawing program and looked at the tip rib profile and the spars were located at the high point. I checked my top view of the wing and I had the spars nearly 3/4 inch further aft! I then corrected the drawing so at least that is correct now. Glad I caught it now!
I can draw the correct spar location on the bottom of the LF jig easily. I'm thinking about the spar locations that was drawn on each rib section and how to get them correct. I was thinking of just cutting out the ribs without the spar locations. Then setting them in place in the LF jig, then marking the bottom spar locations. Turn the ribs over and mark the top spar locations. Then proceed as normal with construction.
I've included a pictue of the LE buck and now that I look at it, it doesn't have much taper between the root and the tip. Also a picture of the LF jig tip that shows an pretty far aft spar location.
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An update on the spar relocation. I drew the correct location of the spars at the tips (5/8 fwd). I then made a rib and located the bottom spar cutout using the bottom of LF jig. I then flipped over the rib and located the top spar. This worked out well.
I'll have to put this project aside for a couple of weeks. I'll be back mid November.
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I made up the LE wing skins this morning. I'm using 1/16 6.5# balsa. Each skin is made up from 3 pieces of balsa. The center piece is 1 1/2 wide while the 2 outer pieces are 3 x 2 1/4 wide. The center piece has the grain running along the LE because this is where the tightest bend will be. The outer pieces were cut so that the grain is running parallel to the spar. The tapered cut is glued to the center piece. They are glued together using thin CA ala Bob Hunt's method. It is important to use CA for these joints because we will be soaking the balsa with water to mold them into the LE sheeting and don't want them to become unglued in the process.
I true the edges of the sheeting by using my 4 foot long level with sandpaper attached to one side. I block up the balsa using some old wooden flooring I have. A few swipes across the sandpaper yeilds a good tight joint.
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Before I soak the skins I draw a centerline down the center of the middle piece. This is used to line up the skin on the LE buck. Then I soak the skin in HOT water only. I leave it in the tub of hot water for at least 45 minutes. I rub off the excess water and then go to my bench. I lay down 2 strips of masking tape, sticky side up. I place the skin on top of the masking tape with the centerline up. I line up the LE buck with the centerline and tape the skin in place to the LE buck. Then I do the same thing for the other end.
Time to wrap the whole thing up. I use 4 inch wide bed sheets to wrap the skin. Using ACE bandages leaves crosshatch marks in the wood. I got this tip from Al Rabe. I attach one end of the strip to the bench with a piece of wood and a spring clamp. I stretch out the strip and start winding it over the skin. It usually takes 2 strips per LE skin. I then secure the strip with masking tape. I don't wind real hard, just tight enough to keep the skin against the LE buck. I then place the whole thing over a hot air register to "bake" dry for 2 days. I have gone 1 day, but I feel the skin holds it shape better after 2 days.
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What Ty said. Looks like you got a nice LE radius - not too blunt. Really like the molded approach, I need to learn how to do it beter than I have in the past..
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Thanks Ty and Dennis.
Dennis, yes, it does incorporate a well rounded LE.
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The first molded LE skin turned out great. Tonight I wrapped the second one.
I've been slowly working on making the wing ribs. The right side ribs are shaped and have the spar notches done. Next I'll add the lightning holes and then they should be ready to go. No pictures till the ribs are all done.
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Thanks for the tip on holding the strip/bandage while wrapping the mold buck alone. That is a very ingenious but simple solution.
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You're welcome Willie.
I finished cutting out the right side ribs. Rib R1 will have the rest cut out when it is glued in and trimmed even with the spars and TE sheeting. I did a test fit of the ribs and spars. Looking good. Some minor trimming here and there and the right side will be ready to start assembling.
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Isn't the bottom sheeting and cap strips supposed to go in first? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Isn't the bottom sheeting and cap strips supposed to go in first? ??? ??? ??? ???
No. Just trial fitting.
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Crist,
Looking real good man! I used the lost foam method on my Geo and it worked like a champ. Looks like you've got it down.
Jason
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Crist,
Looking good so far. I have have a new design under construction, using the same methods. We are almost at the identical stage of the build.
In my case the fuselage will be the difficult part since it will not look like most stunters and will take some extra Cad work. And yes it will be electric.
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Thanks Jason and Tom.
Been busy over Thanksgiving and didn't do a lot of work on the plane. I didn't like the first set of ribs I made. I felt they were too flimsy and so I made up another set using 8# wood instead of the first set at 5.9#. While I was at it, I changed the spars from 1/4 square to 3/16 x 1/4. Tonight I started the assembly in earnest. Some of the ribs in the pictures aren't fully cut out because they are the LE ribs only and the portion aft of the spar will be cut away.
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Wow, it even LOOKS light!
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Tonight's progress consisted of gluing in the ribs, spars, and TE sheeting. I also made up the shear webs. So far going together very good. I'm following Bob's tape step by step. I just finished fitting the shear webs. I used 3/16 sheet for the first 2 bays and 1/8 sheet for the next 3. This wing is going to turn out very strong! Enjoy the pics.
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Looks like you fit your shear webs around the inside perimiter of the rib/spar locations?
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Looks like you fit your shear webs around the inside perimiter of the rib/spar locations?
Yep.
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Man, that's a lot of extra work. I cheat and just put them on the front or back of the spar. Must be a Minnesota thing. ;D
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Man, that's a lot of extra work. I cheat and just put them on the front or back of the spar. Must be a Minnesota thing. ;D
I'm sure your way will work too. With a wing mounted LG, especially when it is mounted an the aft side of the spar, putting the webs on the front or back could complicate things. Also I'm following Bob's tape pretty close on this wing and that's the way he did it on the tape.
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Looking great. Should be light. H^^
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Tonight's work was getting the LE shells glued on and trimmed. They worked out great. The wing fits the jig perfectly both on their side and when I flip them over and put the left wing in the right jig and visa versa. The wing now weighs 4 ounces as you see it. I installed a shear web near the right wing tip to support the tip weight box. The LE sheeting only goes over half the spar. The cap strips will go over the aft portion. The wing is all detailed glued and the next to go in will be the shear webs then on to the TE.
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Tonight I glued in the shear webs and joined the wing. While the epoxy was curing I worked on the TE. The wing TE consists of 2 pieces of 1/4 square and 1 piece of 1/32 to form the hinge slot. I lay the TE over the plans and mark the hinge center lines. Then I make another mark 3/8 on either side of that mark for a 3/4 wide hinge slot. I strip out some 1/32 balsa slightly wider than 1/4 inch. I then cut these to the proper length between the hinge slots. I label them and the TE piece. I then take some wax paper and fold a 90 degree fold about 1 inch from the end. I then take my 48 inch level, the same one I used to true the edges of my sheeting, and place it on top of the wax paper with the fold line tight up against the edge. I clamp the level down on my bench top. I take the TE piece and pin it up against the level and wax paper. I glue the 1/32 pieces in place, then the top piece in place. When dry I remove the TE and sand off the excess 1/32 balsa.
Then using a piece of basswood, in this case 1/32 I mark the aft portion of the TE. This line is to aid me when I taper the TE after it is glued in place. The pictures show a 1/32 line but I'm going to put another line 1/16 from the edge. I think the 1/16 will be more realistic and I won't have to sand away the line thus loosing my reference mark. Using these marks helps assure a straight taper to the TE. The stab TE was built in a similar manner but without the taper reference marks.
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What'ya usin' fer glue on that there T/E?
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What'ya usin' fer glue on that there T/E?
Medium CA. Why wait?
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Nice job Chris:
I also make a lamination for hinge pockets, but I do a couple of things different. I like to put the middle 1/32 layer crossgrain, its more visible that way and provides a centerline reference. The other thing I like to do is make up a hinge line assy that is wide enough to cut both the wing TE and front of flap from. That way the spacing between the hinges is automatic. Might have a couple of pics if you want.
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Nice job Chris:
I also make a lamination for hinge pockets, but I do a couple of things different. I like to put the middle 1/32 layer crossgrain, its more visible that way and provides a centerline reference. The other thing I like to do is make up a hinge line assy that is wide enough to cut both the wing TE and front of flap from. That way the spacing between the hinges is automatic. Might have a couple of pics if you want.
Alan,
Very clever way of doing it. Pictures not needed, I know what you mean.
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I sanded the TE even and installed the TE. I used masking tape instead of using weights and pins as Bob used in the tape. I used some Pica Gluit glue for the TE. I really like this glue because the joint sands so well and smooth. After I had the TE all taped in place I put my 5 foot ruler across the span of the TE supported by 1/32 plywood inserts where the hinges go. I used 4 of them and the ruler to check for straightness of the hinge line. Wow, almost perfect!
I'll make up the bellcrank tonight so it'll be ready when i need to install it sometime this weekend.
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Ah yes, one MORE reason free-weights excercise machines are better!
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Ah yes, one MORE reason free-weights excercise machines are better!
True modelers do work out with free weights! LL~
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Crist, that looks straighter than my straight edge. I love these types of construction posts. Thank you. H^^
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Crist, that looks straighter than my straight edge. I love these types of construction posts. Thank you. H^^
Thanks John. I post this stuff for the benefit for others. At the very least, it shows one way of getting the job done.
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Installed the TE vertical grain shear webs this morning. The pictures show how I cut the shear webs. I clamp the stop block in place against my square. Then I clamp my "tool" in place for the proper width of the shear webs. I insert my 1/16 sheet and trim the shear web using the "tool" as an edge.
Next up will be the tip weight box.
It's been 2 months since I started cutting balsa!
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Tip weight box was next. I use 1/8 lite-ply, 1/8 birch ply, and 1/64 ply. I cut out the 4 sides from the lite-ply and glue them to make a box. Then I use 1/8 birch ply for the floor. I trace the box onto the ply then drill the center 5/32 for a 4-40 blind nut. I cut it out close then glue it to the box. The using my disc sander I sand it down to size. I then add 3/4 wide 1/64 ply 3/8 down on each side of the box. I use the 1/64 ply to from a "well" for the lid.
After the box is installed into the wing and glued I sand the 1/64 ply to match the LE sheeting.
On to the lid. I use 1/8 birch ply, 1/4 balsa, 4-40 fender washer, and 7/32 aluminum tubing. I carefully sand the 1/8 ply to fit into the well and mark which way is forward. I then find the center and drill a 7/64 hole for a tight fit for the 4-40 screw. I put the 4-40 fender washer under the screw and insert the screw into the lid. I use thin CA to carefully glue the washer to the 1/8 ply. I drill a 7/32 hole in the 1/4 balsa and chamfer the bottom of the hole to clear the fender washer. I put the balsa on the lid and insert the aluminum tubing over the head of the 4-40 screw. I then glue in the tubing. I trim the tubing and glue the balsa to the lid. Using my disc sander I sand the balsa to match the 1/8 ply. Then I screw down the lid and sand the lid to match the wing.
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Here is how I make up my bell cranks. I use 1/8 phenolic I get from the scrap bin at work. After I gut it out and sand it to shape, I epoxy glue 2 5/16 wide doublers. I use these to increase the bearing area and the extra thickness keeps the bell crank from tipping. I drill the hole for the 1/8 music wire post using a #30 drill. The extra few thousands allow a smooth and free fit on the shaft.
To "suspend" the bell crank, I use 2 4-40 fender washers and 2 1/8 eyelets for lines. I measure to center the bell crank and solder the first washer and eyelet in place. I insert the bell crank, then I use a small piece of 220 grit sandpaper with a 1/8 slotted hole in it to add a little space between the top washer and the bell crank. Once all soldered up, I clean the assembly using acetone. I squirt a little silicone spray on the pivot.
The lead outs are made from 2 1/2 long 1/16 annealed brass tubing, .027 lead out cable, .010 serving wire, and a 5/8 long 1/8 heat shrink tubing. I use the longer 1/16 tubing over the shorter tubing that forms a "C" because it is more secure because I've seen the "C" shaped tubing work itself out of the bell crank.
The ball link is installed in the bell crank using a 3/4 4-40 screw, washer, ball link, spacer, bell crank, washer, and 4-40 lock nut. After installation, I use some diagonal cutters to mess up the exposed threads of the screw to prevent the nut from coming off.
The completed bell crank assembly with 42" long lead outs is 21 grams.
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I made up the 1/8 basswood pieces and mounted the bell crank. Noticed that I used 2 short pieces of fuel tubing as a safety to keep the bell crank "centered" in the wing.
I also glued in the LG blocks.
On to the sheeting and cap strips.
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I have the tip sheeting done and the cap strips installed. The center sheeting is the last of the build for the wing. I have some suitable sheeting but I am waiting for my order from National Balsa to see what I might be able to use for the sheeting. Then I'll sheet the center of the wing. In the meantime I made up the adjustable lead out guide and glued on the tips.
Here is how I do my LO guides.
I use 3 pieces of 1/8 basswood 1/2 x 3 with 1 piece the grain is vertical.
I use medium CA to glue the 3 pieces together with the vertical grain in the middle.
I then lay out a center line.
I mark the ends of the guide and make a mark every 1/4 inch for the holes.
I use a sharpened ice pick to carefully center punch each hole.
I drill the 1/8 holes using my drill press.
I draw 2 lines about 1/32 apart.
I cut on the inside of the lines using my trusty Dremel jig saw.
I glue a piece of 1/64 ply in the end I started the jig saw in.
I put the guide in my vise and using a piece of 120 grit I sand the slot using a motion like I'm shining shoes.
I check to make sure the lead out will slide from one end to the other.
I then soak each hole and the part in between them front and back with thin CA. I usually hit the guide with some kicker.
I then re-drill the 1/8 holes.
Back to the vise to clean up the slot.
Another soaking of thin CA, re-drill, and slot cleaning.
Then I trim the guide to length.
Then I measure out the final width of 3/8 and mark it with a pencil.
Over to the disc sander for final sizing.
It is now ready to install in the tip.
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Wow, it's been a week between posts. I received my balsa order from National Balsa and it was very good wood. It averaged right at 7# (right where I like it) and the grain was excellent.
The center sheeting is drying, so pictures tomorrow.
In the meantime I made up my flap push rod. I use carbon fiber tubes and fittings from Tom Morris. The length is 6 1/2 inches long. I will be using a R/H and a L/H fitting so adjustments can be made without disconnecting the push rod from the flap horn later on. I could use 2 R/H fittings and just disconnect from the flap horn. I just find it easier to do it this way. When I'm talking about making adjustments, I'm referring to when I'm hooking up the controls during assembly. Not after the model is built and finished. I also use 2 pieces of 7/32 aluminum tubing cut to 3/4 long. These are to keep the carbon fiber push rod from splitting during assembly and over its service life.
The CF push rod is cut to 3 7/8 long. I allow 1 1/4 for the fitting and ball link for a R/H link and 1 3/8 for the L/H fitting and ball link. I then scratch both fittings with coarse sandpaper, sand the outer ends of the push rod. I then clean the fittings, the inside of the aluminum tubing, the inside and outside of the CF push rod with acetone. I then mix up some JB Weld and mix it throughly. I use a toothpick to apply some JB Weld to the inside of the push rod and to the R/H fitting. I insert the R/H fitting into the push rod and then add some JB Weld to the outside of the push rod and then slide the aluminum tubing down over the R/H fitting onto the push rod. I then clean up the excess. The L/H fitting is a little different due to the wrenching flats. I glue on the aluminum tubing first then glue in the L/H fitting and then clean up the excess. I make sure that the R/H fitting hasn't been pushed out some by pneumatic pressure from inserting the L/H fitting into the push rod. I allow it to dry over night. I know that the push rod is a little long but it sure beats making one a little short. I like to have a lot of the threaded portion of the fitting into the ball link. I'll grind off a little of each fitting to allow some adjustment both longer and shorter while still having a lot of the threads into the ball link.
I'm well aware of not running the fittings too deep and bottoming them into the ball link which will cause a failure of the ball link. I'm sure you get the idea wanting some adjustment along with the security of sufficient threads into the ball link.
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An extra fine drill bit will put a breather hole into the carbon tube with out losing strenth. H^^
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An extra fine drill bit will put a breather hole into the carbon tube with out losing strenth. H^^
A drop of ca in the hole and it will go away after it has done it's job.
:!
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Good points Doc and John.
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The wing is done being built. I sanded the TE round and finished sanding the sheeting and capstrips. I cut out the push rod exit hole in the top sheeting. All that's left is to terminate the LO and do the final detail sanding before covering. The wing as shown with the flap push rod and horn, and weight box with screw weighs 8.7 ounces. My budget allows 2 ounces for the Monokote which will put the wing at 1/4 oz over my budget. This wing came out very straight and is very stiff. I'm pleased on how well it turned out.
You'll notice that there is a lot of sheeting both at the tips and on the bottom of the wing. The extra sheeting was added because of the color scheme for the Thundervolt will be similar to the USAF Thunderbirds air show team. Because I'm using Monokote, I like to have the color changes occur on a wood surface. All the extra wood probably cost me about 12 grams.
On the lead out guide, another modeller sent me a great method. Instead of using 1/8 o.d. eyelets, I'm using 6-32 x 1/4 socket head plastic screws. I drilled a 1/16 hole down the length for the lead outs. I then tapped the holes in the guide 6-32. Works very well.
Enjoy the pictures.
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On this type of leadout guide I've never understood what keeps the exit guide bushings from coming out of the holes during flight? ???
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On this type of leadout guide I've never understood what keeps the exit guide bushings from coming out of the holes during flight? ???
Wayne,
If using eyelets, it friction or a light press fit that holds them in.
The nylon screws thread into the tapped holes in the LO guide. They are finger tight. The plastic into the wood threads almost form a "locking" fit so the screws won't back out.
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Dear Crist,
I just want to say thank you very much for posting these great tutorial of your building project. It is fabulous and I follow it regularly.
Many thanks
sina
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Sina,
Thank you. It was good seeing you at the NATS. Take care.
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Wayne,
If using eyelets, it friction or a light press fit that holds them in.
The nylon screws thread into the tapped holes in the LO guide. They are finger tight. The plastic into the wood threads almost form a "locking" fit so the screws won't back out.
Hmm, I'll have to take a closer look in Polk City. ;D
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I added the flap horn clips to the flaps tonight and trimmed them to length. I also trimmed the TE to the correct chord width. Next up will be to taper them. Pictures tomorrow.
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Today I tapered the flaps and rounded the LE. I used the Perret Bar method just like the elevators. I drew a line about 1/8 from the edge on each side of the TE on each flap. Then I used the line to align the bars prior to sanding in the taper. After the flap is secured in the jig the first thing I did was to sand down the horn clips close to the bars. I then used my Master Airscrew plane to plane down the rough taper. I then used 120 grit sandpaper to bring down the balsa to where I just just touching the masking tape. Then I switch to 220 grit sandpaper and final sand the taper. I am very pleased how well they came out. The TE are very straight. BTW tapering the flap takes off about 30% of the weight before sanding in the taper.
I then rounded the LE. I used 120 grit sandpaper (used) and sand a bevel at about 45 degrees. Then I sand another bevel above that one at about 30 degrees. Then I sand another bevel below the first bevel but above the hinge slots. Then I use 220 grit sandpaper and then I round off the LE.
Then I sanded in the hinge pockets like I did on the elevators. I then did some final sanding on the edges and cleaned up the flaps. The flaps came out right on budget. 50 grams before covering.
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Here is where I am in the build. The stab, elevators, wing, flaps, and fin are completed. The rudder needs the edges rounded off. All that is needed is to do some detail sanding prior to covering and to terminate the lead outs. Overall the build is going well and I am 18 grams over my weight budget. I'm hoping I can make that up when I build the fuselage. Usually I now cover the wing, stab, flaps, and elevators with Monokote. I apply all the trim and lettering and then move on to the fuselage.
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Speaking of weight budgets, here is my weight and balance sheet for this project. Every one of my planes gets one of these. When I start a project, I have a target weight in mind, then using previous builds and experience, I assign a weight for each componet. Then once the CAD drawings are done, I add in the moments to get a projected CG. Note that this projected CG can and does move around depending on how well I estimate the moments of things like the finish. No real hard "point" to measure to. In my example below, I fill in the "Actual" weights with my target weights to derive an estimated CG and wing loading. The sheet that I keep by my work bench has the actuals blank that I fill in as I go.
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Taking a few days off to enjoy Christmas with the family. I'll pick this back up in a week. Everybody have a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
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I'm baaaaack!
The last couple of days I've been thinking about the fuselage. I decided to redesign the front end to accommodate a "top loader" for the battery. I redid the drawing today and would like your comments.
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Looks pretty good Crist. Dowel in the front I see but what keeps the backside of the hatch in place ? Neodymium magnets maybe? I have 2 on the backside of my hatch and plan on using a canopy latch bought off Ebay on the front of hatch.
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Bob,
I use the same latch on some of my R/C ships.
You are correct on using magnets on the aft side. They will by on the aft bulkhead and will be positioned vertically. They will not be on the "bottom" of the hatch positioned horizontally.
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H Crist,
Looks good.
I have tried to think through the same sort of setup as you suggest, and I have one thought.
The latches, like the one Bob pictured, are very tidy, and if the latch is placed in the hatch, not in the fuselage, then one hand is all it takes to grab the sides of the hatch and pull the pin back and remove the hatch.
This frees up the other hand to hang onto the ship. We have achieved single-hand, no-tools battery access, and along with it access to the hidden disarming plug!
I'll say it again, nice work,
Dean
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H Crist,
Looks good.
I have tried to think through the same sort of setup as you suggest, and I have one thought.
The latches, like the one Bob pictured, are very tidy, and if the latch is placed in the hatch, not in the fuselage, then one hand is all it takes to grab the sides of the hatch and pull the pin back and remove the hatch.
This frees up the other hand to hang onto the ship. We have achieved single-hand, no-tools battery access, and along with it access to the hidden disarming plug!
I'll say it again, nice work,
Dean
Dean,
Good idea. I'll look into that.
A hidden disarming plug? My thoughts were that the plug should be readily accessable. Would a hidden plug be in compliance with the "Brett Buck" proposed rule?
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Top hatches are great. I am tyring to do a side hatch too - so I can miss the forward canopy on some of my (pending) Classics.
BTW I agree that the arming plug should be exposed/accesible without being hidden, so that is how I am doing all mine.
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It's a fair question.
To my way of thinking, one-handed, no tools, access suffices.
For appearance points' sake, some sort of external marking " EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN ACCESS" or something that sounds scale-like works.
It remains to be seen what the exact wording will be.
I did suggest to Brett that the access merely needed to be "no tools required", but that was long ago in and probably lost in a long thread.
take care,
Dean P.
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It's a fair question.
To my way of thinking, one-handed, no tools, access suffices.
For appearance points' sake, some sort of external marking " EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN ACCESS" or something that sounds scale-like works.
It remains to be seen what the exact wording will be.
I did suggest to Brett that the access merely needed to be "no tools required", but that was long ago in and probably lost in a long thread.
take care,
Dean P.
Dean,
Thanks for the candid reply. We'll just have to wait and see.
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I started the fuselage tonight. The sides are made from 3/32 6# balsa and the doublers are 1/64 ply. I had to join several pieces of wood to be able to have a wood blank large enough for each side. I usually place a splice up front where it is reinforced by the 1/64 doublers. The sides are drying with the firewall end shimmed up 3/32 to help with the curvature into the spinner. While I had enough epoxy I laminated the LE former made up of 3/32 balsa and 2 pieces of 1/64 ply. I also made up the stab LE former from 1/16 balsa and 1 piece of 1/64 ply. The balsa grain runs crosswise, while the 1/64 ply grain runs up and down.
Seeing I have access to a large format printer I made up a drawing that extends the outline of the fuselage sides and the location of each bulkhead. A very accurate method of laying out the fuselage.
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my next plane will have the hatch latch AS the arming switch - so you only "click" the hatch in place once you are ready to fly..... I have tested it with the sermos power poles and they make a nice snug connection - with my hatches being on the inboard side - it also has no stress on any of the fittings...
I like your design - looks nice and tidy......something I struggled with early on... HA
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Wynn,
interesting, I was cogitating that very same idea the other day while driving to work ( I have an hour drive to work)
as an alternate for emergency disconect, providing the judges with a 3 pound sledge might work? LL~
Christ, the build is coming along nicely,,
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my next plane will have the hatch latch AS the arming switch - so you only "click" the hatch in place once you are ready to fly..... I have tested it with the sermos power poles and they make a nice snug connection - with my hatches being on the inboard side - it also has no stress on any of the fittings...
I like your design - looks nice and tidy......something I struggled with early on... HA
Crist does first class work - enough to keep my stuff OUT of the forum!
Wynn, I like your idea for the side hatch that is "latched" by the built in power pole arming circuit!
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my next plane will have the hatch latch AS the arming switch - so you only "click" the hatch in place once you are ready to fly..... I have tested it with the sermos power poles and they make a nice snug connection - with my hatches being on the inboard side - it also has no stress on any of the fittings...
I like your design - looks nice and tidy......something I struggled with early on... HA
That's bleeping brilliant!
Regards and a genuflection or two ... H^^
Dean
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thanks folks (sorry for hijacking your thread Crist)
sometimes simple ideas come to me.... HA. - with the hatch idea - it is easy to pull the hatch off using the "pin" I use as the opening device - so if there are any issues - you can disconnect as quik as any other device - no sledge hammer required Mark!!!
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thanks folks (sorry for hijacking your thread Crist)
sometimes simple ideas come to me.... HA. - with the hatch idea - it is easy to pull the hatch off using the "pin" I use as the opening device - so if there are any issues - you can disconnect as quik as any other device - no sledge hammer required Mark!!!
You're forgiven Wynn! :)
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Tonight's progress on the fuselage. The doublers are glued in and the fuselage sides are cutout for the wing and stab. The formers are located and the battery tray anchors are glued in. I also cut the hatch for the adjustable elevator linkage. I lined the hatch and its opening with 1/32 basswood. I always leave a little gap between the side and the hatch to allow for paint build up.
Tomorrow I'll spend the evening making up the bulkheads. Then this weekend I join the fuselage sides.
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I made the formers tonight. I used some spray adhesive to glue the plan to the wood. Then I cut out the formers. F1 and F2 are made out of 3/16 ply and due to the 2 degree right thrust I sanded in a small angle on the side of each former.
Tomorrow I'll join the fuselage sides.
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More gorgeous work Mr "R"!!!
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Thank you Dennis.
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Tonight I joined the fuselage sides. I used my jig that I made up some time ago. When I tape down the plan to the work surface I align the center line to the line on the work surface. If you look close you'll see some triangle shaped cut out of the plans to reveal the line on the work surface. I aligned the jig blocks to the outline of the fuselage, then I aligned the fuselage sides fore and aft, then inserted the formers. It took very little adjusting the jig blocks so that the fuselage sides matched the plans. The formers and everything fit very nicely. The tail post is made up from some small TE stock with 1/32 balsa in between to form the lower rudder hinge slot. I then made up the diagonal formers. Very pleased with the way it turned out. Tomorrow I'll add the tri stock to the nose and start making the jig to mold the top/bottom blocks.
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Crist,
it looks beautifull,, nice and tidy,,
oh dont forget to fuel proof the fuel tank bay LL~
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oh dont forget to fuel proof the fuel tank bay LL~
exactly ... the best will be some high temp dope for chimney ... I heard lipos like to burn LL~
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exactly ... the best will be some high temp dope for chimney ... I heard lipos like to burn LL~
LOL! LL~ LL~ LL~
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I trial fit the motor and it fit well. Pretty tight but good. I then made up the rear shaft support using a 5mm flange bearing and some 1/16 fiberglass board I had. I followed my drawings and it fit perfectly! No shimming, no nothing. I made up the battery floor and added some tri stock above the motor area. Then I added the stab shelf. You'll notice a 1/4 hole in the shelf. It is there to provide an outlet for the stab air as it gets heated when I re-tighten the Monokote from time to time. Plus, I think it's a good idea to let it breathe. I then glued the patterns for all the formers on some 1/16 or 1/8 balsa as required.
I started to make the mold for the top and bottom blocks. I used some of that unused flooring for the base. I glued on a top view drawing and cut and sanded it to shape. It matched the fuse exactly. I then cut out the formers from some 3/32 birch ply that I had. After shaping and sanding to size, I glued them to the bottom block. I then cut out some 2# foam and epoxied the foam to the form. I'm letting dry overnight. Oh, yeah, I used a black magic marker on the edges of the formers so I will be able to tell when I'm sanding down far enough when shaping the mold.
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can I just ask how the rear bearing is held in place - is it just press fit into the board?
thanks
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can I just ask how the rear bearing is held in place - is it just press fit into the board?
thanks
Good question Wynn. It is a light press fit then I use a little JB Weld applied sparingly with a toothpick.
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Looks like you have right thrust built into the motor mount. How much ?
Or is it just the angle of the picture that makes it look like that ?
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2 degrees Allan.
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I have been watching your building progress with great interest. Great job!! Are you thinking about making your plans available for others to purchase? I know that I would be interested and hopefully others also.
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ
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Ron,
Thanks for the kind words. When I'm done and it flys, then you can have a copy. Remind though. I suffer from O.L.D. LL~
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The top/bottom block mold has been carved and sanded to the proper contour. After I sanded it I usually add several coats of Polycrylic. This time I used some 3/4 oz fiberglass and 2 coats of Polycrylic. Looks like this method is going to work well. I also am making up the forward top block mold. It'll be finished the same as this mold.
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Lookin' good Crist! y1
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Thanks Wayne.
I shaped the forward top block mold tonight and the first aft top block is on the mold and drying. It will come off in 2 days.
I also finished cutting out all the bulkheads. I decided to eliminate the false bulkheads because I think the 3/32 sheet I'm using for the blocks is stout enough not to need those bulkheads.
On to the front end of the fuselage while the fuselage top/bottom blocks are being formed.
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Tonight's progress was I put the first balsa on the forward top block mold. It'll come off in 2 days. The aft top block will come off the mold tomorrow. I added the 1/2 tri stock to the bottom of the nose, 3/16 bottom sheeting with the grain crosswise, the 3/8 chin block, and the 1/2 nose block with the 1/32 ply nose ring. I used Pica Gluit glue because I'll be doing a lot of sanding across the glue joints and the Pica glue sands very well and doesn't leave a "lump" like using CA does.
I put in a 1/4 hole where the nose strut will come through the bottom sheeting and lined the hole with 1/4 aluminum tubing.
I did notice that I won't be able to get to the aft screws on the battery tray from on top. So I installed some 2-56 blind nuts and drilled out the aft tray mounts to 3/32. I'll be able to get to these screws from the cooling hole on the bottom. So far so good. I'm pretty sure the fuselage will come in under my weight budget even enough to make up for the other parts that are slightly over budget. All-in-all, I just make have it come in at 50 ounces or less....we'll see.
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The top block came off the mold tonight. Worked very well.
Here is a picture of the tool I use to trim the molded balsa. It is the same height as the base of the mold and I rounded the corners and glued on a new #11 blade. To trim the balsa, I just put some pressure on the assembly and slide the tool along the side of the mold. Off comes a very close trimmed piece of molded balsa. I mark the fuselage sides where the formers are located. I then tape the balsa to the fuselage after carefully aligning it to the sides and mark the former location from the fuselage sides to the balsa. I then glue in the formers at the pencil marks. I then trim the front and aft face and then slide it along some sandpaper that I have glued down on a flat surface to true up the bottom edge. Here's a picture of the finished top block resting on the fuselage. BTW, the top block weighs 7 grams ready to install. The 3/32 wood molded well and will provide plenty of strength.
I then trimmed and sanded the nose into a "blocked" configuration. I made up the top motor block and the angled bulkhead. The bulkhead is made from 1/16 basswood to provide some durability for the hatch parting surfaces.
Tomorrow the forward top block comes off the mold and Saturday the bottom aft block comes off the mold.
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That is awesome as usual. H^^
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Thanks Doc.
Tonight I shaped the front end and cut the cooling holes. For the block that starts at the LE of the wing, I sanded in the scoop using some 1 1/4 Schedule 40 PVC pipe I had laying around. I lined the scoop with 1/32 balsa. I have some more shaping and sanding to complete the nose.
Tomorrow I get the molded bottom block off the mold. Then Sunday the forward top block comes off the mold, if I need it.
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Today I finished all the top and bottom blocks and the hatch. Finished sanding the nose. The total weight of all the blocks and the hatch came out to 25 grams. Next up is making the mount for the start switch.
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So it looks like the nose is going to stay bigger than the spinner diameter for a propwashy cooly sucky intake action? (sorry if I'm getting too technical) ;D
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Yeah wwarbird, that motor is gonna get frostbite from all the cooling air. ABSOLUTELY GREAT job Crist!
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So it looks like the nose is going to stay bigger than the spinner diameter for a propwashy cooly sucky intake action? (sorry if I'm getting too technical) ;D
You nailed it! #^
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Yeah wwarbird, that motor is gonna get frostbite from all the cooling air. ABSOLUTELY GREAT job Crist!
Thanks Dennis. What I'm a bit concerned with is slotting the battery tray for all that air to prorerly flow across the battery surfaces so it can do its job.
While working on the front end and the hatch, I think I figured out the placement of the electronics. The ESC will reside below the battery tray along with the start switch. The timer will reside on the outboard (maybe) side. While I can move the battery fore and aft for balancing, I do think a forward position is a bit preferred.
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I hear you. Air intakes are easy enough, I'm having a devil of a time locating effective outlets...
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Yikes! I think I'd better take out the trash.
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That's not so bad, I still see a clean spot on the floor. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Chris :
You are clearly mocking the rules of "Bin Jenga"
The stack may build as high as possible with additional junk being placed on top.
You may balance against a wall
Once the additional loads of rubbish cannot be placed on the stack in any capacity without falling to the floor
Game over - bin must be emptied by the offender.
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What I'm a bit concerned with is slotting the battery tray for all that air to prorerly flow across the battery surfaces so it can do its job.
Without looking back, that would all depend on where the battery is in line in relation to the intended airflow path.
I'm going to describe the following only because sometimes people do miss the obvious, not implying that you are here Crist.
If the battery is "ahead" of the battery tray, there is no reason other than weight to put vents directly "behind" or underneath the battery because the battery will be there blocking the airflow anyway. Depending on the compartment, as many vents as possible should be incorporated in the tray around where the battery is positioned on it to allow the most possible airflow.
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Without looking back, that would all depend on where the battery is in line in relation to the intended airflow path.
I'm going to describe the following only because sometimes people do miss the obvious, not implying that you are here Crist.
If the battery is "ahead" of the battery tray, there is no reason other than weight to put vents directly "behind" or underneath the battery because the battery will be there blocking the airflow anyway. Depending on the compartment, as many vents as possible should be incorporated in the tray around where the battery is positioned on it to allow the most possible airflow.
Wayne,
Your last statement is what I'm determining. Of course those slots will depend on where the battery is located fore/aft. Also how to get the air to flow over all exposed sides and not just 1 or 2. In the Spring when I fly it, I can try different trays and can instrument the battery sides with 3 different temps sensors. It might be worth experimenting to get some good data on the subject.
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Ahhh.....all better now.
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What's that YELLOW stuff on the wall? :##
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What's that YELLOW stuff on the wall? :##
Spray bomb yellow from painting my handles. There's also spray contact cement on there too!
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Oh handles, I didn't think it could be airplane paint! ;D
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I made up the landing gear less the main gear covers. I then put it together for the first time.
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WOW That looks just like your plans - you ARE an accurate builder!
...and you know I am teasing. I really like this project and look forward t seeing this one in the air. Looking alike ANOTHER winner Mr R.
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Great job, dennis ... really impressive. H^^
Congratulations...
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Great job, dennis ... really impressive. H^^
Congratulations...
THANK YOU Jose luis! H^^ However I think you meant to congratulate Crist. 010! #^
:-[ even I am not bold enough to take credit for Crist's work! VD~
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WOW!!!... sorry b1...big mistake.HB~>
Repeat... geat job...Crist
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No problem Jose. I knew who you meant. Thank you for the kind words.
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Thanks Dennis. I try to build accurately to the plans. I try and think out and plan all the details in advance to prevent those "gotcha" moments. I guess that is one of the reasons why I like to draw all my airplanes.
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Looks really nice Crist and a NEW design from someone, great to see.
I'm just wondering though because I did catch myself thinking this the other night, is there a Legacy hiding in there somewhere? Not trying to take away anything from your design work, just curious.
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Looks really nice Crist and a NEW design from someone, great to see.
I'm just wondering though because I did catch myself thinking this the other night, is there a Legacy hiding in there somewhere? Not trying to take away anything from your design work, just curious.
Wayne,
Good question. The Legacy 40 is an outstanding flying airplane and it could be kit bashed to look like the Thundervolt, though this one is entirely from me. It comes from the line of my designs from over the last 8 years or so.
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Chris
What hinges are you using?
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Chris
What hinges are you using?
Klett
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Hey Crist, it's been a week since we've heard from you here, are you lost in the balsa dust?
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Hey Crist, it's been a week since we've heard from you here, are you lost in the balsa dust?
Wayne,
No, life and work is getting in the way. I'll be very busy through the middle of February then full bore to get it done. Just doing some minor detail sanding when I get the chance.
Hang in there!
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I can relate, I've been trying to finish this little Challenger for months now so I can start on something new. I've been kicking around the Legacy .40 along with about a dozen others...
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Very nice work, Crist! I like the trike gear, should really help the "easy" points gain in take offs and landings. y1
Bill
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Hey Crist, you gunna have Red, White and Blue handles for this one ??? ??? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Hey Crist, you gunna have Red, White and Blue handles for this one ??? ??? LL~ LL~ LL~
Funny, just yellow ones. They are easier to see in the grass.
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Looks nice Chris.. Ive been following this for a while..
Love the shape.
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Kinda quiet here...?
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Wayne,
We had our audit this past week, so the OT and stress will be reduced from now on....till the next audit! I'll pick it back up shortly.
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Bump. H^^
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Polk City is right around the corner Crist! ;D
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Polk City is right around the corner Crist! ;D
Looking forward to it and seeing you guys.
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Looking forward to it and seeing you guys.
With the Thundervolt?
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Yeah, I could bring it with me.
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In RTF form?
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In RTF form?
LOL! It might be by then.
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That's where I was going with this. ;D
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I'm helping an older modeler with a project of his. I'll get back to this soon.
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Hey Crist, does Floyd and Larry know your calling them OLDER ???? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Looks like you have right thrust built into the motor mount. How much ?
Or is it just the angle of the picture that makes it look like that ?
2 degrees Allan.
Beautiful stuff Christ. How did you come to decide on 2 degrees right-thrust? A typical starting point?
I'm curious as I have read that some are under the opinion that less is needed with the reverse rotation used on a typical E setup - while I have always assumed more right-thrust is your friend when "at the top".
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Beautiful stuff Christ. How did you come to decide on 2 degrees right-thrust? A typical starting point?
I'm curious as I have read that some are under the opinion that less is needed with the reverse rotation used on a typical E setup - while I have always assumed more right-thrust is your friend when "at the top".
Doug,
Over the last 10 years of reading and flying stunt, this is where I've settled in. Would 1 1/2 degrees work? Probably, might not even tell the difference. I bet that most of the "numbers" we use that the vast majority of us flyers wouldn't tell the difference e.g. 1 1/2 or 2 degrees of right thrust. I feel that it is not hurting my pattern so I go with it. I did try straight ahead on several airplanes and did not like it.
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The other projects are finished and the bench has been cleaned off.
The white Monokote has been cut to size. The stab and elevators have been covered. Tonight the flaps and I start the wing. Moving on with this project again.
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Tonight I covered the wing. I'll do the flaps tomorrow. By the end of the weekend I plan to have the trim on and have the hinges done.
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Crist
Glad to see you are getting back to this project. I looks like a killer!
I am swearing off Monocote (brand) because the white in particular simply does not work for me anymore - doesn't shrink . Are you having any problems with it?
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Dennis,
I'm using "old" Monokote that I got at a swap meet when a hobby shop closed. These rolls were obviously old Monokote because the "clear" plastic wrap was slightly yellowed. No problems what so ever and it has that reassuring Monokote smell to it when unwrapped and unrolled on the table. Ah, "I love the smell of Monokote in the morning"...
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Ah, "I love the smell of Monokote in the morning"...
Yup! 8)
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I finished up the white Monokote tonight. The wing, flaps, stabilizer, and elevators are covered with white Monokote.
I thought I'd show you how I cover a flap or elevator with a hinge pocket. Remember we sanded them in earlier in post # 36.
1) Cover the bottom first wraping the Monokote around the LE past the center line.
2) Trim the LE Monokote past the center line. Let the knife just go through the Monokote where the pockets are.
3) Seat the LE down.
4) Take a hobby knife with a #11 blade and slit the Monokote along both edges of the hinge pocket. I use a lever type motion.
5) Using your trim iron seal down the Monokote just enough to get it down onto the bottom of the hinge pocket. Don't seal it down real good for now, you'll see why in the next step. I usually start more on the flat surface of the flap/elevator and using a rolling motion I run the trim iron onto the bottom of the hinge pocket.
6) Now take your #11 blade and run it along the edge of your hinge slot. Now I use the tip of my blade to pick up/out the timmed off piece. This is why you don't want to seal it down real good in the previous step.
7) Use your trim iron to seal down the remaining Monokote in the hinge pocket real good.
-) Turn the trim iron on its side and press it up against eack side of the pocket to seal the edges of the Monokote.
9) Cover the other side and again overlap the LE Monokote past the center line. Repeat the previous step to seal down the Monokote.
10) When all done covering, I use a rag with Acetone and wipe down all my seams to get rid of the excess adhesive.
11) I then use some Nelson paint that matches the white Monokote and with a touch up brush, I dab a small amount of paint onto the sides of the hinge pocket where there isn't any Monokote. I usually do 2 coats. Let dry and on to the hinges!
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The last picture shows the Nelson paint and the finished hinge pocket.
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Looking really good Crist. Really appreciate the details shots.
Sure missed seeing you at the nats this year. Hopefully next year!
Thanks,
Jason
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Looking really good Crist. Really appreciate the details shots.
Sure missed seeing you at the nats this year. Hopefully next year!
Thanks,
Jason
Jason,
Thanks. I missed going to the NATS this year. I'm planning on next year. Please leave the Geo-XL home though! Well done my man.
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The last picture shows the Nelson paint and the finished hinge pocket.
Nice job with the monokote on the hinge pockets.
So for those not fortunate enough to have supply of "Old Monokote", what's the next best shrink film option that's readily available ?
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Nice job with the monokote on the hinge pockets.
So for those not fortunate enough to have supply of "Old Monokote", what's the next best shrink film option that's readily available ?
Thanks Allan.
I'm guessing Ultracote.
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Time to hinge the surfaces.
Now that the Monokote is done I add the Klett hinges. I add them to the elevator and flaps first, then to the stab and wing last. I use a piece of .032 mw cut to the length of the flaps and elevators (4 pieces). I bend a 90 bend about 1/2 inch long. This is so I can twist the wire as I'm removing it from gluing in the hinges. Sometimes a little glue gets on the wire so it needs a little help breaking free. I then string on the hinges needed. 3 for the elevator shown. Note that the hinge tabs are all on the same side. I place the hinge so that the elevator hinge has its tab on the outer side of the hinge slot. This is to aid when I'm inserting the hinge wire to help align it so it will go into the stab hinge tab. I can move the elevator up or down in or out to help align the wire.
Next up is to apply the glue into the slot. I use Pacer Formula 560 canopy glue. It is water based glue so cleaning it up is easy. Sure beats epoxy. I've never had a hinge come loose! Once you use this stuff, you'll never go back to epoxy. I use one of those glue bottles that Tom Morris sells. Also you can get them from a craft store. I put the full strength glue in the needle bottle then "inject" the glue into the slot. I don't fill the slot with glue because all it will do is over run and then you'll have a lot of wiping to do. Experience will tell you how much to squirt in. Then starting at the tip, I insert each hinge into the slot. Remember we want to keep the hinge tab toward the tip. Once all the hinges are in place and you've wiped up any and all excess glue from the the elevator and wire, then I take the assembly and gently push it up against the straight edge of my bench to align all the hinges so that the .032 wire just rests on the LE of the elevator. Do not push too hard all all. You'll push the hinges below the LE of the elevator and you play heck getting the hinge wire in when joining the elevators to the stab. Don't ask, just take my word for it. Set aside to dry. Once the glue has dried, remove the wire by gently twisting it and withdrawing it from the hinges. Flaps get the same treatment. Next up, the stab and elevator get their hinges. Stay tuned.
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OK, time to hinge the stabilizer.
First thing I do is take a center punch and move it back and forth across the hinge slot to "compact" the balsa into a small recess for the hinge barrel. This usually pushes out the Monokote so I use my trim tool to stick it down into the recess. When done I take the .032 wire out of the elevator and re-insert the wire but this time with the other half of the hinge. Note, I had to trim the length of the hinge because I'm only using a 1/2 wide stab TE with CF on the LE of the TE.
Then I apply the Pacer 560 glue and insert the elevator with the hinges into the TE. I'm sure that the elevator control horn is also used. This assures perfect alignment to the horn when the elevators are removed once the glue dries. I then use some small pieces of masking tape that have been "de-stickied" by putting on my T- shirt first, to hold the entire assembly together. Of course the flaps are done the same way.
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Just a couple of pictures of what it looks like so far.
I added some chrome Monokote to the LE to add some bling.
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Thanks Crist, you keep me learning something everyday. The color scheme is looking great. H^^
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The wing is glued into fuselage. I insert the wing with the flap horn and then I attach the flaps. I then use equal thickness balsa scraps to place bewteen the fuselage side and the root end of the flaps. This positions the TE of the wing. I then measure out an equal distance from that scrap out toward the wing tip. In this case it was 26 inches. I place a mark on each wing TE. Then using a tape measure and a pin, I align the wing so that both measurements are the same. I use pins to hold it in position and then use some blocks so that each wing tip is the same distance from the table top. Spot glue, recheck all dimensions and then glue it in for real both top and bottom.
I then glue in some 1/8 ply reinforcements over the bellcrank post to really beef up that area. Once those are glued in I fiberglass the center section to the fuselage sides. I use 3 oz cloth cut about 1/2 to 3/4 wider than the inside of the fuselage and then cut it to length according to the position of the bulkheads. I lay out the fiberglass on some newspaper and then very lightly hit them with some 3M spray glue. This allows me to position the cloth and hold it into that position while I apply the epoxy. I usually wrap the TE portion around the flap horn tubes. BTW, I use some 1/2 round Plastistrut stuff I got from the local hobby shop for flap tubes. Works very well. Tomorrow I install the pushrod and glue on the top and bottom blocks.
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Chris
What weight pound of Balsa are you using, and how are you controlling that selection?
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Chris
What weight pound of Balsa are you using, and how are you controlling that selection?
I like to use from 6.5# to 7.5# balsa. I use my gram scale and weigh each piece mark it and then assign a pound figure. Then I stack my balsa from the heaviest wood on the bottom to the lightest on top.
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Installed the flap and elevator pushrods tonight. Yeah, I used a left hand thread fitting on the flap pushrod. I figured it would be easier to center the flaps using it. I was right. I adjusted the length to close enough and bolted it to the flap horn. I centered the lead outs and then I just used my small wrench to center the flap horn - easy! Yeah the LH thread fitting cost a little more but it was worth it. I then installed the elevator pushrod. Notice that I use a 4-40 fender washer on the outboard side of the ball link. It acts as a "safety" just incase the link pops off the ball, I won't loose all control. Never had it happen, but it's a good policy none-the-less.
I then glued on the molded to and bottom blocks. I run a Q-tip soaked in water along the edge of both the fuselage and block before I add the glue. This is done to swell the joint slightly, thus giving me a nice tight joint.
I have not glued in the stabilizer yet. I usually do that after the fuselage is covered with carbon fiber and doped several coats. This then assures that the stabilizer, once glued in place, will not be "pulled" out of alignment due to the fuselage being covered and doped. I figure that after the initial coats of dope, everything has settled down and it would be ok to glue in the stab.
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The top and bottom molded blocks are sanded. I ran into a bit of a problem. On the right front corner of the long tapered block slipped when the glue was drying. This left about 1/16 of the fuselage side exposed. It would need filling then sanded down. Instead of filling, I cut the affected area away and then glued in a piece of 3/16 solid balsa about 1 1/2 long. I used my Pica Gluit glue and in an hour it was ready to sand. It turned out great. Beats filling, sanding, filling, sanding all along taking at least an extra day.
The fuselage is now ready to be covered.
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Amazing, had to look real close to see the patch after sanding. Great work. H^^
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Thanks Doc.
Today's progress.
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Ya mon! that is looking really great. I thought you were going to paint the fuse..?
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Ya mon! that is looking really great. I thought you were going to paint the fuse..?
Dennis,
Thanks. I was going to paint it but it is getting late in the year to do that. Monokote is faster. I can always do the painting this winter. I want to get this pane in the air to see how well it performs.
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Looks like first flight will be Sunday!
Still have to do the rudder, mount the LG, install the motor, ESC, battery mount, and timer. Seal the hinge gaps and install some tip weight. I have other details that I need to do too. It weighs 26.1 ounces as you see it. It will come very close to my 50 ounce target. And yes, I have a red spinner on order! :)
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Crist,
Looks good buddy, hope it flys as well as it looks. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.
James
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Looks great Crist!
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Looks great Crist, Putting Monokote on that bird is no easy task but you sure seemed to have mastered it, great job!!!!
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Thanks Jason and Keith.
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Where you gunna fly Sunday ???
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Where you gunna fly Sunday ???
Haven't decided. Is Mt. Joy circles cut?
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Ready for the first flight. It ended up weighing 50.9 ounces after adding a 1/2 ounce tailweight to have it balance at 23%. I still have to add the shorting plug and seal the hinge lines. I'll seal them before I go flying tomorrow. Then before the next contest, I'll add the shorting plug.
I think I'll add some bars and stars to the fuselage sides and maybe on the bottom of the wing.
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Wunnerful wunnerful wunnerful! GOOD LUCK and take it slow...
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First flights are a success! This plane has potential. Working on the quality of turn. I'm running at 9625rpm, 62 foot lines eye to eye, lap time 5.3, 13 x 4.5P cut down to 12" and I use about 1650mah for a run time of 5 minutes and 15 seconds.
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That sounds great and hope you have mucho success with it. I also like the very clean lines of the plane. Maybe it is the paint scheme. But, I do like the layout of the plane. Now is this going to get published or kitted?? H^^
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First flights are a success! This plane has potential. Working on the quality of turn. I'm running at 9625rpm, 62 foot lines eye to eye, lap time 5.3, 13 x 4.5P cut down to 12" and I use about 1650mah for a run time of 5 minutes and 15 seconds.
Nice job on the finish.
Do you have plan or drawing for that stooge ?
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Now is this going to get published or kitted?? H^^
Now THAT is a great idea!
CONGRATS on test flights. Really like the low power usage.
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Allan,
The stooge is "inspired" by Don Ogrens stooge that he sells. I have no plans for it.
Let me work with it a little bit then maybe I'll decide on a PAMPA article. One thing I'll have to redraw is to shorten the nose by maybe an inch or a little less.
Dennis, Yeah the low power usuage was lower that I expected. Using my spreadsheet, it comes to out to using 110 watts per pound or .7 watts per ounce. Dean Pappas used 112 watts per pound several years ago to help figure out E-Stunt power requirements. Pretty darned close Dean!
Remember that the airfoil on this plane is only 1 3/4 at the root and 1 1/2 at the tip for an effective 15.2% which includes the flaps. I refer these percentages as to either Nobler or "Classic" percentages. No need for the fat airfoils that we see with IC engines. I'll be interested in how it does in the wind in regards to wind-up. Jason Greer told me on Advanced finals day that the wind was blowing 18mph he had zero wind-up with his Geo-XL which is a "thin" winged model. He also had the CG far forward that what shows on the plans.