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Author Topic: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability  (Read 991 times)

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:02:18 PM »
I'll start by THANKING all the evaluators; Dave Adamisin, Phil Granderson, Bob Hunt Crist Rigotti, Rick Sawicki, Paul Walker, & Norm Whittle for taking your time to test the new props. We now a diverse set of data and results.  The attached table is intended to provide a summary of all the evaluators results side by side.

Here is the 30,000 foot view:
* The results show some scatter with respect to RPM settings.  Some people subtracted RPM with the new prop, some added some, and some made no change.  This was a head scratcher until Paul Walker related that in his experience the 13x4.5's came in all over the map pitch wise. As Paul pointed out, the RPM effect was likely just related to whether the baseline 13x4.5 was WRT pitch.  (I told you this was a great team of evaluators!)

* In most cases people reported small reduction in battery used versus the 13x4.5.

* ALL reported better pull and most mentioned being able to fly slower or wanted to explore going slower yet.

* Almost all reported the new prop was quieter/smoother and attributed this to the stiffer blade

* All reported that the prop seemed to pull harder and brake better.

* ALL of the evaluators were very happy with the new prop and wanted some more for back-up!

CONCLUSION:
If you are currently using a 13x4.5EP Thin Blade prop and simply replace it with a new thick blade 13x5.5EP you should be pretty close to the correct RPM setting.  If you are using a brand new set-up then set to 9400-9500 RPM and you should be within a click or two of where you will want to end up.

Of particular interest, Rick Sawicki tried the new prop in place of a thin blade 12x6, on two different airplanes, one with the full prop and the other clipped to 12"  Positive performance gains were made but at the cost of Substantially higher RPM, higher battery usage and more motor heat.  Upon further review we determined that with his set-up he had to run at the top of the governing band (85% throttle) so his governing would have been sub-optimized.  I think the folks like Rick running 12x6 Thin Blade, and who cannot take on the added 1000 RPM that the 12x6 thick blade needs, would best be served by using a clipped 13x6.5...


I have ordered the launch samples, and expect to start shipping by the end of this week (August 5-6 time frame) so I am READY AND WAITING to take your order!

* Props are $7.50 ea.  PayPal or Checks OK.

* US shipping at $6 per order via USPS Priority.  Buy 20 or more and I will cover the shipping.  What a deal!

* International orders, PayPal only, shipping at actual cost.  Buy 30 or more and I will cover YOUR shipping.  What a deal for you too!

Either PM me here or send me an email with your order: dadamisin@yahoo.com
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 07:19:49 PM »
Table is fuzzy.   Even when I downloaded file and tried to zoom in, still hard to read.
Can you attach the original document ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 08:11:08 PM »
Dennis,
One thing I am interested in is the amp draw and the ESC setting. The battery draw down seems very low for a full pattern.

Best,               DennisT

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 04:32:50 AM »
Thanks for comments:

* Allan, try the pdf file

* Dennis T: must of the test articles were 5S or 6S systems - lower current and less total mah used.  Note the highest battery usage (mah) went with the 4S systems.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 10:28:19 AM »
OK I don't get it.. I see 5.5 and 6 pitch props being turned over 9 grand for a ~5 second lap. I'm running close to the same pitch 6-7 on my four strokes and they are turning 82-8400. I understand line length will make a difference and I am running a little higher pitch but that doesn't account for a 1000 rpm difference. Hard to tell but by the sound my 4 strokes are not unloading and gaining a whole lot in the air.

Wondering why such a large difference...

BTW: I was once thinking about replacing a 15k rpm .36 two stroke with a 10k Saito 56 on a carrier airplane thinking I could make up the RPM loss with prop pitch and a big 4 stroke would have the power to turn it. Found a pitch-airspeed calculator on-line and discovered I couldn't get there. 1/2 a pitch number isn't that large a jump in air speed.

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 01:12:48 PM »
OK I don't get it.. I see 5.5 and 6 pitch props being turned over 9 grand for a ~5 second lap. I'm running close to the same pitch 6-7 on my four strokes and they are turning 82-8400. I understand line length will make a difference and I am running a little higher pitch but that doesn't account for a 1000 rpm difference. Hard to tell but by the sound my 4 strokes are not unloading and gaining a whole lot in the air.

Wondering why such a large difference...

BTW: I was once thinking about replacing a 15k rpm .36 two stroke with a 10k Saito 56 on a carrier airplane thinking I could make up the RPM loss with prop pitch and a big 4 stroke would have the power to turn it. Found a pitch-airspeed calculator on-line and discovered I couldn't get there. 1/2 a pitch number isn't that large a jump in air speed.

Two-stroke IC engines pick up 1K to 1500 RPM from ground to air.  I forget what four-strokes do, but as I remember, it's the same.  Electrics don't; if enough power is available, they hold RPM constant. 

Probably any pitch-airspeed calculator you find online is bogus.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 05:05:02 PM »
I am running an AXi 2826-10 920 kv motor in a Legacy, 4S 3000 mah batteries, APC 12-6EP, 64 oz with battery. Is this new prop likely to help me, or is it aimed at the lower kv motors and 5S systems? Or would it be proper to use 5S batteries with the the 2826-10? I am not sure of the actual prop rpm (tach and programmer rpm disagree) but am flying about 5.3 laps on 63' lines eye-to-eye and have no apparent heat problems with the components.

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 05:39:57 PM »
I am running an AXi 2826-10 920 kv motor in a Legacy, 4S 3000 mah batteries, APC 12-6EP, 64 oz with battery. Is this new prop likely to help me, or is it aimed at the lower kv motors and 5S systems? Or would it be proper to use 5S batteries with the the 2826-10? I am not sure of the actual prop rpm (tach and programmer rpm disagree) but am flying about 5.3 laps on 63' lines eye-to-eye and have no apparent heat problems with the components.

Hi Mike,
Two comparisons in the table should interest you.  Rick Sawicki's Legacy at 62 oz with a 2826/12 & 4S.  The new prop worked great for him - for 2 flights, but have since learned he burnt up his motor.  The new prop has 17% more disc area and must spin roughly 1100 RPM faster than the thin blade 12x6.

Rick also flew a Aldrich AG-1 Duster with the same power system & the prop clipped to 12" - that seemed to work fine, but he needs to slow it down a little.

The /10 motor is higher kv so you have some room to spin up (Rick had to go to 84%-85% throttle)  I think you might be OK with the prop clipped to 12" to keep the load down.  Your RPM will be better matched to the /10 motor's higher kv, and the clipped prop will be wider than the natural 12x6 so it should improve your thrust & braking.

Still more confusing: The new 12x6's with the thick blades reportedly need 800 more RPM to break even with the old thin blade - that puts them in the same neighborhood as the clipped 5.5!

As much as I want to sell props, I think the new prop will only work for you if you clip it to 12" then I would recommend a few short test flights while CAREFULLY monitoring motor temps and battery power used.
 
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 07:55:03 PM »
Hi Dennis:

Thanks for the timely caution. I already threw a magnet on my first 2826-10 about six months ago, rendering it effectively a  throw-away. Current one is a replacement. Sounds like I should be jealously guarding the four thin-blade 12-6 EPs I have in the prop box!

Assuming I want to try a clipped 13-5.5 or the thick blade 12-6 it appears another 800 or so revs will be needed. Would that be the time to switch to 5S batteries in the same 3000 mah range, or am I (probably) misunderstanding the relationship between motor KV ratings and volts needed to achieve optimum desired rpm? I do have an infrared temp sensor available so can keep tabs on component heating.

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: 13x5.5EP Test Results & Availability
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 09:26:45 PM »
Actually Mike you may be in pretty good shape to try the thick blade props.  The /10 motor is a 920 kv.  I did not see what RPM you are running but I will bet it is around 8400.  That means that you are running about a 62% throttle setting.  Castle recomends that we run somerwhere between 70% - 85% throttle for best governor perfromance - 62% is a little outside the range.

Now lets assume that you go to the 12x6 thick blade that reportedly needs 800 more RPM, taking it from 8400 to 9200 RPM.  At that point you are about 68% throttle - better.  In fact you might want to seek-out one of the new thick blade 12x6's and give it a go - I fdo not think it will overload the motor but go slowly!

If the thick blade 12x6 works, then the 13x5.5 clipped to 12" and needing a few hundred more RPM might be in the cards for ya.

I think the 5S option works best if you get a good match on kv, you need something in the 700-750 range, the AXI 2826/12 is a 760, that's pretty close!   

Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!


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