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Author Topic: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?  (Read 594 times)

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« on: March 07, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »
Anyone have experience with the APC 13 x 6.5 EP? (Not the 13 x 4.5 EP) I am having good luck with the 12 x 6 EP and picked up a 13 x 6.5 to have a try. My setup is AXi 2826-10, PX 45 ESC, 25C 4S 3200 batteries, in ARF Legacy 690" at about 60 oz. I am using about 9000 rpm to get 5.2 laps on 65' lines. I anticipate dropping rpm by 300-500 to use the bigger prop. What will be the effect on current draw and amps used, I wonder?

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 09:45:31 PM »
Hello Mike,
I am assuming your target is the same lap time as before.
So the RPM will have to be lowered maybe 7% (6-1/2" versus 6" pitch) and the prop efficiency will improve a bit, just as the motor efficiency will drop a bit.
The power required from the prop to run the same lap time will always be the same.
As I said above, the bigger diameter will improve prop efficiency so the power into the prop will be marginally less.
On the other hand, running at a lower % of full drive results in higher peak currents compared to the average, which makes the resistive losses a bit higher.

The result? For one, power consumption will be practically the same.

As for flying ... in most air, you'll probably like it better, provided the turn doesn't suffer.
We eagerly await you assessment of the difference in flight. Let us know, if you are able, over a variety of wind conditions.
Fortunately, the RPM change is easy and repeatable, so you can do A-B testing in different conditions.

Regards,
  Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 11:03:32 PM »
Thanks Dean. It will take me a while to digest the technical aspects of your comments but I am slowly learning the science. If we get a break in our bitter California winter I will be able to report this weekend. APC makes -8 pitch props in this series too, so it would be interesting to try. The model flys so well on the 12 x 6 I don't know what improvement I could expect but we will see. For now I will stick with the 13 x 6.5 in my experimentation. I have the 13 x 4.5 EP as well but the 12 x 6 seems to have the edge and requires less rpm. Very good corners and good drive on verticals.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 01:39:36 AM »
I think the max efficiency of larger prop will stay the same. The shapes are the same, P/D ratio is the same.
Prop will be unloaded in level flight, thus I expect lower efficiency in level, and it will pull harder up hill. So I expect some mAh more compared to 12x6.

You can expect little better line tension overhead (at the same lap time). Properties in wind will depend on the weighth of the model.

But be carefull, use a thermometer to check the motor temperature. You will need to throttle down, and it will need more power, so the temperature will go little up.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 12:13:49 PM »
Mike.
What is your current draw with the 12x6 for the pattern? I am using the same set up and need to keep the current to below 33 amps to stay below 75% draw down on a TP 3900 mah Pro-Lite pack. I'd love to be able to use a 3300 and save the weight. It will also be interesting to see the amps on the 13x6.5. If it is to high you could repitch down to a 6" pitch. Other option is to sand out the undercamber from the hub out about 2". This mod drops the amps by about 10% and for my ship did not impact the speed, just allowed using the larger diameter on the same battery pack.

Best,       DennisT

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 03:39:58 PM »
Hi Dennis:

I am putting about 2100-2200 mAh back into the battery on a 5 min 30 second flight duration. I fly the full PA pattern plus maybe six laps and some outsides to unwind the lines. Plane is 64 oz 690" Legacy. I am using  5.2 lap as my airspeed goal on 65' lines (eyelet to eyelet). I tried 2650 4S batteries but it was not quite enough capacity. If I cut down the run time to maybe 5 min 10 secs it may be adequate. This is a big plane that can carry the weight of any battery in that 3000-3900 range. I want to try the 2650s again as some local flyers are having success with the smaller cells. I have also tried 5S cells with good success. Luckily my flying buddy has about 30 batteries in the right range that I can experiment with!

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 05:36:50 PM »
I've laying off this thread for awhile, I did not want my experinece, "It did not work for me" to in any way influence or discourage the experiment!

We started the Strega experiment with a 13x6.5P, we changed it pretty early on to a 13x4, and finally to the 13x4.5P.  Mike, your Legacy is some 50 squares smaller, a full 1 POUND lighter, and less draggy than the Strega - you are operating in a different universe!  I am curious to hear how it works for you...

 
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 07:04:55 PM »
Hey, I LIKE operating in a different universe, especially if I can get Seven of Nine to come along on the ride! Wonder what she is powered by...

My thinking is that there is no substitute for careful experimentation, and since we are feeling our way along in E-power why not try something and evaluate the results, both in flight quality and equipment performance or lack thereof? As noted above I doubt I can improve on the 12 x 6 EP but I want to try. I am also not giving up on the 13 x 4.5 EP but my setup seems to be more suited for lower rpm. I don't think I will overheat the motor but will do a 30-second test flight and put the infrared sensor on it and the ESC to avoid an expensive mistake. One more nice feature of E-power.

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Anyone try APC 13 - 6.5 EP?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 08:19:43 PM »
Hi Mike,
I think you might like the results if you start with the 13-4.5 and incrementally add pitch till the RPM is in the mid 9000s. I suspect you'll end up with 5.5" of pitch.
Below 9K on 4S with a 2826-10 and you'll start to lose efficiency and make lots of useless heat.
Above 11,000 (maybe even near) you will run short of voltage headroom by flight's end, even though motor heat will be minimsed.
Dean
Dean Pappas


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