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Author Topic: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.  (Read 2709 times)

Offline walterbro

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12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« on: August 11, 2008, 04:03:33 PM »
There have been several posts that state a pusher prop will improve your line tension
and thus improve you pattern.I tried it today and it really works good. The biggest
improvement was my hourglass,but also my vert. 8,overhead 8 and 4 leaf clover showed improvement. I think that Kaz Minato was the first to suggest this and I know
Dean Pappas posted this also. I flew 4 flights this morning and every one was better
than any previous flight on my NAKKE. My AXI 2826/10 used 2.19 mah with an Evo 4270 mah 14.8v battery.Lap times were 5.06 to 5.16 seconds. I was surprised that
my spinner cutout only had to change slightly for the pusher prop.

Walt
 
 

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 08:11:15 PM »
Walt
That is the same set up that I have been using and your right the prop sure helps and I also fine that on the down leg of munuvers the prop acts like a break and does not unload like a Ic engine. #^ #^ #^ y1 y1
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 10:08:32 AM »
I ordered a couple the other day from APC and will try them right out---right after using a tractor 12-6 to see if I can detect a difference or not. Since my flying more or less s**ks, the main joy I am getting these days is from this experimenting!  :!

Offline John Cralley

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 12:42:17 PM »
Alan,

When I tried to order some pusher props from APC I received the following:

Secure Connection Failed
www.apcprop.com uses an invalid security certificate.

The certificate expired on 7/25/2008 9:02 AM.

(Error code: sec_error_expired_certificate)

    * This could be a problem with the server's configuration, or it could be someone trying to impersonate the server.

    * If you have connected to this server successfully in the past, the error may be temporary, and you can try again later.


I wonder if you have had this problem or if someone is spoofing APC's Web site.
John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
AMA 52183
Central Illinois

Alan Hahn

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 12:47:09 PM »
I don't recall exactly, I do remember when it went to the secure connection I got a warning, but I went anyway! The link I use is one that I have had for quite a while, so I am "pretty" sure it is ok.

One thing to note is that the original certificate (from your warning message) just expired at the end of last month.

Offline John Cralley

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 01:55:37 PM »
Thanks Alan,

I guess I can create an exception to override the security block on my computer. I did send APC a message pointing out the problem and maybe they will get it corrected. I'll try again tomorrow.
John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
AMA 52183
Central Illinois

Alan Hahn

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 08:31:48 AM »
Well I finally flew a flight with the pusher.

One thing I note is that it apparently is slightly less in pitch or load (or something). Since I am flying in governor mode I assume the rpm was the same as with the normal tractor prop (which I flew just before the pusher prop). I have four indicators--one the pull was slightly less (noticed right away, it took longer to get to the 4 leaf clover (I use a "talking timer" and normally it is signaling the 5 minute mark in the first loop of the clover, but yesterday it announced the 5 minute mark before I even got downwind), my lap times were 5.2 s (normally just under 5.1s) and finally my charger only had to put just under 1500mAHr into my 4s1p 2100 2100mAHr pack. Normally the charge is midway between 1500 and 1600.

So it made it a little difficult to assess whether I had more tension in the corners or not. Flew ok and I plan to leave it on for a few more flights at least. Not sure it is a flyable day today, but if it is I'll put on my EagleTree Data recorder to get a reading.

To my eye it looks pretty identical to the tractor, but something is different.

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 09:07:10 AM »
Hi Alan,
The odds are that if you took a bag of same-size APCs and checked them all you'd find 1/8" pitch between the highest and lowest. That beats the daylights out of any other plastic prop I know of. I'll be iterested to see what you come up with in an A-B experiment once you can compare identical lap times. I know that Hunt actually decided to slow down about 0.15 seconds a lap because he had equal tension up top and enjoyed the nicer pace.

take care,
              Dean P.
Dean Pappas

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 07:45:10 PM »
Alan,

It would be interesting to test the static amps on both props set to the same pitch on a pitch gauge. I think you can check the pitch by flipping around the swing arm and scale (think you will need to put the swing arm on the outside with out the numbers) or make a simple triangle block cut to the pitch angle at say the 70% blade length.

I am curious how your motor battery compares with mine on the 12x6. I draw 62amps at 9.9v with the 1500kV motor at 8600 rpm (about 24% throttle on the Ztron).

Best,       Dennis

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 09:45:27 PM »
I flew my pusher prop today too.  right after using the tractor prop, I used the pusher prop.  My lap times were about 1/10 sec slower with the pusher prop.  I really didn't notice much difference in line tension.  Next time out I'll spend more time comparing the two.
Crist
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Offline Mike Palko

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2008, 09:59:59 PM »
Hi guys,
   Line tension in level flight may not be much more, if at all, but what about on outside maneuvers? Hard corners like the outside squares or the outside portion of the square eight. Or the hour glass, vertical eight and over head eight? No difference? P-Factor only works one way? hmmmm....... Does the airplane have to be retrimmed to take advantage of the prop? I still have not had the chance to try my pusher props.

Mike

Alan Hahn

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2008, 08:27:54 AM »
I made my comment since I was hoping to eventually make an "unbiased" test using fellow CLPA pilot/guinea pig  Fred Krueger. He wasn't going to be told which prop I had mounted. Then  he was going to make two flights with the two props in succession. However the different airspeeds makes it difficult to do a test like this. Human perception can really color what we perceive to be facts, so ......

Other than the airspeed, I have no big complaints with the one flight I have . But the difference threw me off and so I played it a bit cautious. It is a relatively "big" deal to change rpm's (I have to get the ESC to a computer), so I plan to leave stuff alone for now and see how it flies. I have been wanting to slow the speed down a little anyway, so I will see if it flies ok at this rpm.

Actually I am now doing a bigger test/change on the ENobler (not just the prop). Hope to get a flight this afternoon. Stay tuned for details (in a new thread)!


Offline Paul Lagan

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 08:12:26 PM »

Static power at the prop to turn the 12x6 at something like 8800-9000 seems to be over 650watts.  Can anyone supply me with some in-flight power figures to turn the same prop at the same revs in level flight with a "typical" 55 ounce stunt model?  I am hoping it may be much less - maybe 350 watts at the prop?

I am curious how your motor battery compares with mine on the 12x6. I draw 62amps at 9.9v with the 1500kV motor at 8600 rpm (about 24% throttle on the Ztron).

Best,       Dennis

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 12 x 6 APCep try it you will like it.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 09:51:23 PM »
At 62 Amps, A123 cells are about 2.1 volts, not 3.3 v.  3s2p then would be 6.3 volts or about 390 Watts - at the 8600 RPM quoted, which is in line with your thinking.

Mike A.
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Central Iowa


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