Author Topic: 100 Flights on ThunderPower batteries (Read 3609 times)

WhittleN · « **on:** October 24, 2011, 08:16:59 AM »

God morning guys

I have reached a milestone; 3 of my G4 20C 5S2600mAH batteries have reached 100 flights each. They show no sign of weakening. I remember a few months ago folks were discussing the high price of the ThunderPower batteries... I guess that works out to $1 per-flight and going down. I also have 50 + flights on 5 of the new ThunderPower G6 25C 5S2700mAH batteries with excellent result.
I am also testing the ThunderPower G6 65C 5S2250mAH batteries. The 65C battery is what I would use during an official contest flight - you can feel the difference.
Disclaimer: I do not represent ThunderPower; I buy my batteries at retail price – I am only sharing my satisfaction in the product.

Norm Whittle

Zuriel Armstrong · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2011, 11:16:55 AM »

Norm,

I'm still on the upward side of the learning curve for electrics. Why use one battery for competition flights and another for practice or everyday flying?

Zuriel

WhittleN · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2011, 11:52:32 AM »

Zuriel

It's the "C" rating a 65C rated battery has a much lower internal resistance than a 25C rated battery. My 65C batteries have an average of .00265 Ohm resistance whereas the 20C has .009 Ohm resistance - lower internal resistance equals more power.

Norm

Zuriel Armstrong · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2011, 01:04:41 PM »

Norm,

Then isn't it advantageous to run the 65C batteries?

Zuriel

WhittleN · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2011, 02:47:06 PM »

Yes, I’m transitioning to them. Now they are heavier and cost more. And when you have 8, 20/25C rated batteries valued at $850 you don’t just forget about them. When the previously mentioned 20C batteries finally give out you can bet they will be replaced by 65C batteries. The 20C and 25C 5S2600/2700 batteries with connector weight in at 10.7 oz. The 65C 5S2700 weight 13.5 oz but the 65C 5S 2250 batteries weight 11.3 oz.
The 65C 5S 2250mAH batteries are in reality only good for 1800mAH if you apply the 80% discharge rule and some more conservative folks apply a 75% rule or 1688mAH. I have found that my airplane typically consumes about 1550 mAH per flight (more at sea level). This is actually the amount it takes to recharge the battery. The 65C batteries seem to take about 100 mAH less to recharge than the 20C batteries. I suspect this is because of the lower internal resistance of the 65C’s.
Bottom line, because I buy my batteries, I can’t afford it.
Norm

Zuriel Armstrong · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2011, 03:03:50 PM »

Norm,

I understand the last line very well. I have not made any battery purchases yet and want to make sure I spend in the right direction.

Thanks again for all of the answers and information.

Zuriel

Paul Walker · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:47:31 PM »

I cab echo Norm's comments. I used the 65C 2700's for my official flights at the Team Trials. I used the 2600's for practice (with ballast weigt to make them the same as the 65C batteries). In the calm air, I can't feel much difference, but in the wind, I clearly can feel the difference. They hold back coming down hill better then the older batteries.

I laso have several 2600;s with 100+ flights on them. No signs of "wearing out" yet.

Most times, you get what you pay for!

For what it's worth, I flew practice for the TT's, and flew at the TT's with just 3 of the 65C batteries. They can be charged MUCH faster and the turn around rate is fast enough I really don't need more! Thunder Power claims that the 65C batteries will be good for 600 cycles! Let's see who can test this out first! Ready, set, go!

Jason Greer · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2011, 07:05:09 PM »

Are you guys pushing the charge rates up anywhere close to the rated 12c on the 65c packs? I ask because I haven't seen a charger capable of charging at 25-30 amps. I'm really impressed by the 1550 mah consumption on this size model. I suppose the 65c packs are holding that much more voltage under load.

Jason

WhittleN · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2011, 07:11:46 PM »

Jason
I'm charging at 7.8 amps because that is about all my charger with my power supply can do. I charge the 20C, 25C and 65C's all at the same rate.
Ok Paul, the race is on, to the first battery to 600 - it should take you a year me a little longer.

Norm

Jason Greer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2011, 07:25:29 PM »

10-4. It's amazing that these new batteries have the capability to be charged in the same amount of time it takes to put in a pattern flight!

eric david conley · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:44:28 PM »

I keep reading about how fast a battery can be charged and how few batteries one needs to fly all day (like 3- batteries). Then I read the safety instructions that come with my batteries (TT 65c) and I wonder what these people that are charging these batteries up think about "#1 Always allow a battery to cool down to ambient temperature before recharging."
I probably use my batteries a little harder flying carrier but are you telling me that you never recharge a battery unless it has returned to ambient temperature and you can fly all day on three batteries having one on charge, one waiting for the next flight and the one that you are flying with? My batteries usually run from 15 degrees to 20 degrees over ambient temperature after a flight and as far as I can tell they don't cool down all that fast (4s/4400-65C). I think it could take easily up to an hour for my batteries to cool down to ambient temperature, perhaps more time?

WhittleN · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2011, 07:24:51 AM »

Eric David
With 9 batteries and 18 min per charge, if I charged sequentially without taking the time to fly, it would take 2 hrs 24 min between charges. Besides batteries would not last 100 flights if we actually abused them. So rest assured we are not destroying the world or our batteries. We use the practice batteries for just that and the 65C's for officials. I actually charge all 9 of my batteries the night before and then fly them the next day.
BTW. the car guys use ice chests (with ice in it) to cool down their batteries. Between rounds and to gain more power density.

Norm

eric david conley · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2011, 10:01:31 AM »

Thanks Norm, I see my problem is having only 2 batteries. As you say if I had 9 of them there would be no problem. Sadly I'm flying in several different classes in carrier and they all take different size batteries. When I started using the TT/65Cs I found a marked improvement in performance in my carrier planes. Also I think they are easier to use, higher power delivery, less time charging. Right now I have 6 TT/65Cs in 3 different sizes so maybe my solution will be to take 2 planes out at a time and practice with them. Eric

WhittleN · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:59:08 AM »

Eric
You could try the ice chest thing. The car guys I'm talking about work for ThunderPower they should know!

Norm

Paul Walker · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2011, 03:13:32 PM »

I wonder what these people that are charging these batteries up think about "#1 Always allow a battery to cool down to ambient temperature before recharging."

After a flight with the 65C, and as soon as it comes out of the plane, it is at ambient temperature. These simply don't heat up at the discharge rates we are running them at.

Paul

Russell Bond · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2011, 03:28:48 PM »

After reading this post I've ordered two 65c Thunderpowers from RCLipos to try out.
I am using 25c TPs at the moment, but do you mean that by going to 65c the batteries will run cooler??....I hope so as that would be so great!!!!
Also is it possible by going to 65c I will use less Mah???... (Not me, the plane...

)

Jason Greer · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2011, 04:50:21 PM »

The 65c packs will hold a higher voltage under load due to the lower internal resistance, therefore the current draw will be lower as long as you do not increase the target RPM. This will equate to a lower mah consumption versus the 25c packs over the same time period.

Russell Bond · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2011, 07:17:57 PM »

Excellent, just what I needed to know, thanks.

WhittleN · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:27:13 AM »

“After a flight with the 65C, and as soon as it comes out of the plane, it is at ambient temperature. These simply don't heat up at the discharge rates we are running them at.
Paul”

So the question just begs. Since we don't tax the batteries why would we spend the extra money and weight on them? - It's all about feeding the governor (not State Tax) when you demand power, as in bad weather and the ESC’s governor is trying to catch up with its set RPM or power down to the set RPM it demands instantaneous current and the lowest IR batteries provide it faster than say 20C’s. This makes for a much more controlled flight, in really all conditions but much more noticeable during stressed conditions.
Norm

William DeMauro · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:24:58 PM »

Quote from: Jason Greer on October 24, 2011, 07:05:09 PM

Are you guys pushing the charge rates up anywhere close to the rated 12c on the 65c packs? I ask because I haven't seen a charger capable of charging at 25-30 amps. I'm really impressed by the 1550 mah consumption on this size model. I suppose the 65c packs are holding that much more voltage under load.

Jason

The I-Charger 306B(Which I have), and the I charger 310B can both charge at 30 amps and 1000 watts. The new Powerlab 6 can also charge at 1000 watts and 40 amps. The Powerlab 8 can charge at 1300+watts and 40 amps. All this is dependent on having a power supply that can provide enough power to reach those numbers. The best solutions that won't break anybody's bank is to use server power supplies.These are very well covered here on RC Groups. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1292514

WhittleN · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2011, 07:52:51 AM »

William

I use a 500W Computer power supply for my FMA 10S charger. Unfortunately all the chargers that I have reviewed to buy depend on voltage higher than 12 VDC to achieve the very high charging rates. As you know the server and computer power supplies only put out 12VDC. The FMA 10S charger pictured in my Charger Box is optimized for 15VDC and never really achieves the advertised 10A charge rate while charging two 5S packs (10Cell). The Cellpro Powerlab 8,as an example relies on a 24VDC 50A input to provide its maximum charging rate output.

Norm

William DeMauro · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2011, 08:36:23 AM »

Norm,
I don't want to get into it here. but if one reads the thread over on RC Groups,they will find instructions on how to use Server Power Supplies in a way that will produce 24 volts. I am doing that. Those that were at the Nats had a chance to see my setup which was on display for a while in the Gazebo.
William

WhittleN · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2011, 09:38:19 AM »

William
Great, can you share your set-up here? I know there are ways to run the computer power supplies in series. If you have done that - please share.
Norm

schuang · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2011, 09:52:01 AM »

Norm,

It might be time to check out the new PC power supply again on the market. The latest Intel Standard requires manufactures to offer 2 sets of +12V supply to support more hardware expansions. Paralleling both +12V can give you up to 30A without a sweat. I got one from fry’s electronic on sale few weeks ago for around $26.

Regards,

Sean

WhittleN · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:02:50 AM »

Sean
How about the voltage? My power supply also has the two 12VDC outputs being an ATX supply, and of course I did parallel them.

Norm

schuang · « **Reply #25 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:05:44 AM »

Quote from: WhittleN on October 26, 2011, 07:27:13 AM

“After a flight with the 65C, and as soon as it comes out of the plane, it is at ambient temperature. These simply don't heat up at the discharge rates we are running them at.
Paul”

So the question just begs. Since we don't tax the batteries why would we spend the extra money and weight on them? - It's all about feeding the governor (not State Tax) when you demand power, as in bad weather and the ESC’s governor is trying to catch up with its set RPM or power down to the set RPM it demands instantaneous current and the lowest IR batteries provide it faster than say 20C’s. This makes for a much more controlled flight, in really all conditions but much more noticeable during stressed conditions.
Norm

I agree the battery heating up is due to it's high internal resistance. Have you guys also checked the IR drop from the wires/connectors between battery and ESC? I suspect that is the limiting factor, not the internal resistance of the battery.

65C seems way overkill...

Regards,

Sean

schuang · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:14:12 AM »

Norm,

I parallel total of 10 wires (on the PC supply side) to cut down the wire IR drop between PC supply and the charger. So far the voltage is around 11.7V (on the charger side) with 13.2A pulling. The one I got is rated 500W unit. There are 700W and up out there might hold up the voltage even better.

Regards,

Sean

WhittleN · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:36:55 AM »

Sean
I used a 1 Ohm resistors on the 5VDC line to fake the powersupply into stepping up the voltage to 12.35VDC and I can drawing 24 Amps. This equates to 296 Watts input to a 300W charger. Since the charger is optimized for 15VDc its true potential won't be reached at 12 DC.
15 VDC or even 24 VDC is what I would like, to power the new high output chargers that want 15- 30 VDC inputs.

Norm

John Rist · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2011, 01:10:54 PM »

Quote from: WhittleN on October 27, 2011, 10:36:55 AM

Sean
I used a 1 Ohm resistors on the 5VDC line to fake the powersupply into stepping up the voltage to 12.35VDC and I can drawing 24 Amps. This equates to 296 Watts input to a 300W charger. Since the charger is optimized for 15VDc its true potential won't be reached at 12 DC.
15 VDC or even 24 VDC is what I would like, to power the new high output chargers that want 15- 30 VDC inputs.

Norm

Good old eBay. If you want something look for it on eBay. A search on 24 volt power supply yielded:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-volt-DC-output-meanwell-SP-320-24-power-supply-13AMP-/140624046690?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bdd8aa62

This is a 24V 13 amp or 312 W power supply for $38. Is used but should be good to go. This is one of many choices on eBay. You can get burnt but look at feed back. It should be %95 or higher.

For a really big sucker:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PYLE-PSL522X-40-50-AMP-12-15-VOLT-POWER-SUPPLY-/120798904235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c202cffab

William DeMauro · « **Reply #29 on:** October 27, 2011, 01:29:22 PM »

Norm,
If you really want to get any serious power to your chargers the server power supplies are our best bet and extremely easy to convert and readily available for very cheap prices from the computer industry. I wrote up quite a bit on it in this thread from last January.I provided links and some pictures over on that thread. I have run my 30 and 20 amp chargers at full power, at the same time, off this setup and it doesn't give me any problem at all. Read from post 9 down. http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=20031.msg187199#msg187199.
William

WhittleN · « **Reply #30 on:** October 27, 2011, 01:34:47 PM »

Thanks William

I must have missed that post in Jan 11. I'm on it now.

Norm

Howard Rush · « **Reply #31 on:** October 27, 2011, 03:54:39 PM »

I got the power supply that William recommended from Server Supply. It was cheap with free shipping and no sales tax.

John Rist · « **Reply #32 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:47:01 PM »

William,

What voltages and amps does the 192147-002 have from http://www.serversupply.com At some $20 or so it looks interesting. The server supply site dosen't list a lot of info other than part number.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #33 on:** October 27, 2011, 05:22:36 PM »

John,
It's 12v 55 amps. The thread on converting these starts here. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1170784#post14001273. I used a servo plug with one wire split off to connect pins 23 and 24 with the third wire going to pin 20. then I stripped all 3 wires and twisted them together to fire it up.

John Rist · « **Reply #34 on:** October 28, 2011, 08:45:27 AM »

Quote from: William DeMauro on October 27, 2011, 05:22:36 PM

John,
It's 12v 55 amps. The thread on converting these starts here. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1170784#post14001273. I used a servo plug with one wire split off to connect pins 23 and 24 with the third wire going to pin 20. then I stripped all 3 wires and twisted them together to fire it up.

This is a monster supply! Also it is not for a person that does not have some computer/electronic skills. It is a no brainer for me because I have worked with the like for 40 + years. Even at that withought the pin pattern chart I may well never have gotten it up and running. However the info RCG is more than adequite to give one a good chance of getting it up and running.

As I supected their is a ton of these on eBay. Just search on 192147-001. By the way what is the size and weight of this unit?

William DeMauro · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2011, 02:35:56 PM »

Lets get this thread back on track. I will be answering Johns power supply question over in the new charging station thread.