Author Topic: Engine Starting (Read 12895 times)

Motorman · « **on:** March 09, 2025, 05:08:03 PM »

Never start a SuperTigre 35 on Mistle Mist without a chicken stick.

MM

Paul Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2025, 07:02:52 PM »

We used to hand flip combat all the time with our bare hands, and got a lot of cuts while we were at it.

I hate chicken sticks, but always use hard leather work gloves. One trick is to turn the surplus left glove inside out.

Dan Hay · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2025, 03:24:27 PM »

I use wood props but will not use a chicken stick on any prop. Use a leather glove like Paul said.

John Rist · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2025, 03:45:33 PM »

I know every body hates them but I use an electric starter.

Colin McRae · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2025, 06:14:50 PM »

Quote from: Dan Hay on March 10, 2025, 03:24:27 PM

I use wood props but will not use a chicken stick on any prop. Use a leather glove like Paul said.

I agree. I use a heavy leather glove and no longer use a chicken stick. On wood props I have seen the props damaged when prop kick-back during starting hit the stick and started a crack or chip. If the pilot was not aware of the prop damage something much more serious could happen namely wood prop could come apart after start and possibly seriously injure someone.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2025, 07:09:24 PM »

As Already stated a good heavy glove for starting an engine for the first time. Once engine has been adjusted it should be no problem hand starting.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2025, 07:15:05 PM »

Since engines got so easy to start, I have seen many fewer cuts and damage during the actual starting, but lots of case where people drug their arm or hand across the prop disk, with usually ugly results. The odds go WAY up if you have to do something out-of-the-ordinary.

Brett

john e. holliday · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2025, 07:18:26 PM »

Of course the number one thing I'm still learning, is don't get in a rush.

Motorman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2025, 09:54:10 PM »

I used leather gloves for decades but, once I got use to the chicken stick it works just like a finger with any kind of prop. I will never go back to sticking my hand in the danger zone.

MM

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2025, 06:44:44 AM »

And in addition to finger injuries be sure the tail hook is securely attached to the stooge otherwise you may be including your knees. Lesson learned, never assume the stooge pin did pass through the eyelet. After 19 stitches the first step is to check the stooge from behind looking under the elevator to be sure!! Not a fun trip to the ER.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2025, 08:04:54 AM »

I use PA 65-75 with carbon props. Kickback on a leather glove is going to hurt like hell or break your finger or cut the glove and still get you. I see people use a piece of pipe couple on their finger. That works but your still putting you fingers in the prop. I have used a piece of heater hose for a very long time. It's soft enough to where the prop can cut the hose on a kick back instead of hitting hard stick and cracking the TE of the prop. I always start the engine with a backwards flip on the LE of the prop where its much thicker and stronger. If needed the heater hose pulling the prop forward doesn't damage the TE of the prop. The hose I have been using it really cut up on the end. That's many many slices that my hand was never ever close to experiencing. When it's summer time and things are warm I can start it with a backwards spinner twist. Keep your hands and fingers out of the prop!

Brian Hampton · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2025, 06:03:46 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on March 10, 2025, 07:15:05 PM

Since engines got so easy to start.....

That has me a bit bemused so I have to ask. Since when have engines not been easy to start and what, in your opinion, was the technical advancement that allowed for easy starting? I can only go back to about 1970 with an Enya 45 model 6001 (early twin ringed version) and it was a guaranteed one flick starter. On the safety issue, if there's any fuel in the engine and the plug is powered up, ALWAYS assume it'll start so never give a heart-hearted flick.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2025, 07:01:46 PM »

Quote from: Brian Hampton on March 11, 2025, 06:03:46 PM

That has me a bit bemused so I have to ask. Since when have engines not been easy to start and what, in your opinion, was the technical advancement that allowed for easy starting?

ABC/AAC cylinder/piston assemblies.

Brett

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2025, 09:56:55 PM »

Quote from: Brian Hampton on March 11, 2025, 06:03:46 PM

That has me a bit bemused so I have to ask. Since when have engines not been easy to start and what, in your opinion, was the technical advancement that allowed for easy starting? I can only go back to about 1970 with an Enya 45 model 6001 (early twin ringed version) and it was a guaranteed one flick starter. On the safety issue, if there's any fuel in the engine and the plug is powered up, ALWAYS assume it'll start so never give a heart-hearted flick.

With the modern metallurgy and tight piston clearances, and high compression, if the mixture is right, they can start even without the battery!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2025, 05:51:58 AM »

That has me a bit bemused so I have to ask. Since when have engines not been easy to start

I can remember back when trying to start a persnickety Fox 35?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2025, 07:42:52 AM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on March 11, 2025, 09:56:55 PM

With the modern metallurgy and tight piston clearances, and high compression, if the mixture is right, they can start even without the battery!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Yes, exactly my point. That would very occasionally happen with pre-ABC/AAC engines, but not at all common. In all my years of flying with Foxes and ST46s, I had that happen once, with an ST46, is what I would consider very extreme conditions (108 degrees air temp, and who knows 6" off the hot blacktop).

With proper engines, it is not at all uncommon and I have had situations where I didn't dare try to even choke them before the hand signal, because they will bump or start just trying to get fuel in them. ABC seems to be a bit more prone to it, I am not sure why except that maybe they are tighter when cold than AAC. The 40VF seems to be the worst offender of the engines I have run extensively, doing it darn near every time at the 93 NATs. But the PA61 was the one that surprised me, it bumped when trying to burp it at 50 degrees and congealed-oil-gummy.

Brett

GERALD WIMMER · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2025, 05:13:40 AM »

Hello A similar oddity like not needing power to the glow plug was starting without touching the prop! This happened at our last Nats when my youngest sons OS 25 would not start after flipping it over plenty due to a dead plug, after screwing in a new plug we connected the power and it started up all on its own. I must have screwed in the plug with it against compression and once lite off it went a bit like some vintage cars will do once primed and in the right position with hand cranking when they connect the coil.
Regards Gerald

PS my worst hand prop injury was starting a diesel combat model while pitting in a crazy rush and having my holding hand slide forward into the prop, hard to hold a greasy mess with one hand and start (whack or belt being a diesel) it with the other, in competition when every second counts.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2025, 10:11:18 AM »

Quote from: GERALD WIMMER on March 15, 2025, 05:13:40 AM

Hello A similar oddity like not needing power to the glow plug was starting without touching the prop! This happened at our last Nats when my youngest sons OS 25 would not start after flipping it over plenty due to a dead plug, after screwing in a new plug we connected the power and it started up all on its own. I must have screwed in the plug with it against compression and once lite off it went a bit like some vintage cars will do once primed and in the right position with hand cranking when they connect the coil.
Regards Gerald

As noted in one or the other threads, you always want to hold the prop when you attach the battery, because that it by far the most likely moment to start. And again, this is *far* more common with easy-to-start engines with really good fits, like an 25LA. It doesn't necessarily have to be at/near TDC, either. My PA61 popped (fortunately did not actually run) when I attached the battery and then it just rocked up against compression from moving the airplane slightly - when it was 50 degrees out!

After a bunch of things like that with me and my buddies, we are *very careful* with modern engines. Any time there is fresh fuel in it, even a little bit, it might bump or start at the slightest inclination, so you need to be prepared for it.

Brett

Colin McRae · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2025, 10:22:33 AM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on March 15, 2025, 10:11:18 AM

As noted in one or the other threads, you always want to hold the prop when you attach the battery, because that it by far the most likely moment to start. And again, this is *far* more common with easy-to-start engines with really good fits, like an 25LA.

Brett

I have seen a 25 LA start without battery power applied. During the priming and flipping process. Engine was a bit warm in this case.

I also have one of the new Enya SS 35 BB-ABC engines that was cold and experienced detonation without power supplied during priming. It did not start but once again reminded me to be extremely careful.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2025, 04:06:07 PM »

Quote from: John Rist on March 10, 2025, 03:45:33 PM

I know every body hates them but I use an electric starter.

I don't mind finger-flipping some engines/props (Magnum XLS .36/Thunder Tiger Cyclone 11x4.5), but with CF props and bigger (over .40) engines, I'll defer to my Sullivan starter with the 18v Makita battery adapter/conversion. It's not light, but it balances well and is pretty zippy, as you can imagine, with 18 volts on a 12 volt starter.

Steve

Steve Glass · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2025, 02:57:26 PM »

When I'm knelt in front of the model to start the engine, as well as the stooge, I use an extra restraint (a loop of rope over the tail pegged to the ground).

Also, I always stand up facing to one side of the model in case I should stumble getting up.

Steve