Author Topic: Castle Edge 50 (Read 5827 times)

Paul Taylor · « **on:** August 04, 2024, 10:07:58 AM »

I am looking for standard setting for the Castle ESC.

Looking at the Cookbook is shows in Fig 2 that Throttle Type is Governor Mode. And the mode is set to Governor High.
The Desired Head Speed is
1. 9469
2. 9562
3. 9657

If I understand this correctly the Desired Head Speed is what the ESC will use as a base line to governor the motor.
I am trying to set the RPM to a desired setting in the FM 9 timer. I am not sure if the setting match what the plane is actually flying at. I will put a tach on it as I proceed. But I am thinking maybe the ESC is fighting with the Timer???

Am I out in left field again?
Can someone please post there file they are using with a FM9 timer on a large Stunter?
Thanks

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2024, 10:26:32 AM »

Quote from: Paul Taylor on August 04, 2024, 10:07:58 AM

I am looking for standard setting for the Castle ESC.

Looking at the Cookbook is shows in Fig 2 that Throttle Type is Governor Mode. And the mode is set to Governor High.
The Desired Head Speed is
1. 9469
2. 9562
3. 9657

If I understand this correctly the Desired Head Speed is what the ESC will use as a base line to governor the motor.
I am trying to set the RPM to a desired setting in the FM 9 timer. I am not sure if the setting match what the plane is actually flying at. I will put a tach on it as I proceed. But I am thinking maybe the ESC is fighting with the Timer???

Am I out in left field again?
Can someone please post there file they are using with a FM9 timer on a large Stunter?
Thanks

Paul, I know what you are talking about and I am not sure there is a fix. Hopefully others have one. I used the Castle 50 and FM-9 on a relatively light plane (fancherized Twister) with great success but when I transferred the same setup to a full size ship I could not ever the the boost right. I am now using the Fiorotti. My symptom was that the boost only restored the preset RPM which was at times insufficient to adequately restore the momentum lost in a turn and it would start to pulsate. It would recover on long periods of high drain like the hourglass and overheads but not on the shorter legs like squares and triangles. It was never so bad that I couldn't fly it, affecting locking mostly, and I got used to it finally but never liked it. There may be a setting that would have cured this and perhaps fiddling with RPM and prop pitch may have circumvented it, but I will never know since I lost all of my Castle ESCs in a fire.

Good luck - Ken

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on August 04, 2024, 10:26:32 AM

Paul, I know what you are talking about and I am not sure there is a fix. Hopefully others have one. I used the Castle 50 and FM-9 on a relatively light plane (fancherized Twister) with great success but when I transferred the same setup to a full size ship I could not ever the the boost right. I am now using the Fiorotti. My symptom was that the boost only restored the preset RPM which was at times insufficient to adequately restore the momentum lost in a turn and it would start to pulsate. It would recover on long periods of high drain like the hourglass and overheads but not on the shorter legs like squares and triangles. It was never so bad that I couldn't fly it, affecting locking mostly, and I got used to it finally but never liked it. There may be a setting that would have cured this and perhaps fiddling with RPM and prop pitch may have circumvented it, but I will never know since I lost all of my Castle ESCs in a fire.

Good luck - Ken

Wow, sorry to hear about your fire loss. I hope is was not due to batteries.

I just put a tach on it. (We are in the outer bands of Hurricane Debby so playing in the shop.)
FM9 settings
Phoenix High
RPM 11,356

Actual RPM with Tach = 9240

Will try again adjusting the RPM.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2024, 10:52:22 AM »

Just bumped the RPM up to 11,534

RPM did not change
9240

?

John Paris · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2024, 01:52:24 PM »

Paul,
I trust that you have the kV for your motor set right in the settings for the motor and have enough volts to spin at the speed you are looking for. Setting the battery on the throttle page will help see if you are in the right range.I normally run mine around 10K rpm in relatively light planes, but have run this set up in a 70 ounce SV without issue as well (although it has been a while). Normally I use the Set RPM mode and preset my ESC to the speed I desire in #2 a little slower in #1 and a little faster in #3 until I am more familiar with what is needed. On the FM-9 I use Phoenix set RPM and choose #2 and do a quick hop to see if it is what I am looking for and add or subtract as needed. Cannot say as I have ever gone back and tached the prop but the RPM has been inline with the setting on the ESC that the FM-9 has selected according to the info downloaded from the ESC.

Will be curious to learn what you find out. FWIW, I think that there was some discussion on SH from Mike Alimov regarding the throttle RPM in the Phoenix ICE/EDGE not matching up well with what was actually put out. Do not recall the outcome of that discussion since I generally use the Set RPM settings.

Regards,
John

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2024, 02:46:22 PM »

Quote from: John Paris on August 04, 2024, 01:52:24 PM

Paul,
I trust that you have the kV for your motor set right in the settings for the motor and have enough volts to spin at the speed you are looking for. Setting the battery on the throttle page will help see if you are in the right range.I normally run mine around 10K rpm in relatively light planes, but have run this set up in a 70 ounce SV without issue as well (although it has been a while). Normally I use the Set RPM mode and preset my ESC to the speed I desire in #2 a little slower in #1 and a little faster in #3 until I am more familiar with what is needed. On the FM-9 I use Phoenix set RPM and choose #2 and do a quick hop to see if it is what I am looking for and add or subtract as needed. Cannot say as I have ever gone back and tached the prop but the RPM has been inline with the setting on the ESC that the FM-9 has selected according to the info downloaded from the ESC.

Will be curious to learn what you find out. FWIW, I think that there was some discussion on SH from Mike Alimov regarding the throttle RPM in the Phoenix ICE/EDGE not matching up well with what was actually put out. Do not recall the outcome of that discussion since I generally use the Set RPM settings.

Regards,
John

Thanks John
So you don’t use the settings in the cookbook. Governor mode?

Anyway you can save off the config and email it?
Or screenshots?

I’m almost at the point of thinking of swapping for a BA or Cobra ESC.

John Paris · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2024, 09:04:52 PM »

Paul,
Guess I was not aware of these cookbook settings. Not good at following instructions... Just been using the information I sent in the last post. Will see if I can get some time to put together what you are looking for. Will take some shots of the FM-9 programmer as well.
Regards,
John

Brent Williams · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2024, 09:27:35 PM »

What Castle ESC mode do you desire to run?
For High Governor mode with a Castle ESC, I zero out those head speed boxes and set the desired RPM at the Timer.
Do you have the Hubin programmer box for the FM9 Timer?

Motorman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2024, 09:31:37 PM »

here are the settings I use for the castle edge lite 50 with hubin fm9 timer.

Throttle

Vehicle type, control line
throttle type, governor mode, governor high
govener gain (custom) 50 (100%)
initial spool up, med 5
Head speed change rate, med 5

Motor Gearing info

no gearing direct drive
KV of motor, 950
magnetic poles, 12 (eflite Power 15)

Brake

brake strength, 100% hard
Brake delay, .5 sec
brake ramp, very fast

cut offs

cut off voltage, auto Lippo volts per cell 3.2
Voltage cut off type, soft cut off
current limiting, normal 70A
current cut off type, soft cut off

Motor

motor start power, med 59
motor timing, normal 5
direction, forward
PWM rate, 12 khz
Motor gearing, direct drive
kv 950
poles 12
Battery voltage 14.80 (4s)

other

power on beep, enabled
Bec voltage 5.0 volts

Timer

Hubin Fm9, Phoenix New High for Edge Lite 50
Phoenix High RPM for Ice Lite 50

RPM, 9800

Hope that helps,
MM

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2024, 06:52:15 AM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 04, 2024, 09:27:35 PM

What Castle ESC mode do you desire to run?
For High Governor mode with a Castle ESC, I zero out those head speed boxes and set the desired RPM at the Timer.
Do you have the Hubin programmer box for the FM9 Timer?

Thanks for the feed back.
That is probably what I did wrong. I was going by the book. 🤓
I was going by the Cookbook.
I have the program box.

I think that cookbook needs revisions by someone that knows more than me.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2024, 07:03:22 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 04, 2024, 09:31:37 PM

here are the settings I use for the castle edge lite 50 with hubin fm9 timer.

Throttle

Vehicle type, control line
throttle type, governor mode, governor high
govener gain (custom) 50 (100%)
initial spool up, med 5
Head speed change rate, med 5

Motor Gearing info

no gearing direct drive
KV of motor, 950
magnetic poles, 12 (eflite Power 15)

Brake

brake strength, 100% hard
Brake delay, .5 sec
brake ramp, very fast

cut offs

cut off voltage, auto Lippo volts per cell 3.2
Voltage cut off type, soft cut off
current limiting, normal 70A
current cut off type, soft cut off

Motor

motor start power, med 59
motor timing, normal 5
direction, forward
PWM rate, 12 khz
Motor gearing, direct drive
kv 950
poles 12
Battery voltage 14.80 (4s)

other

power on beep, enabled
Bec voltage 5.0 volts

Timer

Hubin Fm9, Phoenix New High for Edge Lite 50
Phoenix High RPM for Ice Lite 50

RPM, 9800

Hope that helps,
MM

Good info Thanks
So for desired head speeds?
Blank?

Brent Williams · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2024, 08:25:33 AM »

Yes, blank head speeds.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2024, 09:03:53 AM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 05, 2024, 08:25:33 AM

Yes, blank head speeds.

Ok will test it. Thanks Brent.

Motorman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2024, 01:35:20 PM »

Head speeds don't do anything in Governor mode.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2024, 08:46:06 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 05, 2024, 01:35:20 PM

Head speeds don't do anything in Governor mode.

I tried to remove the head speed (leave it blank) it kept setting it to a number that it did not like.

Here is where I’m at.
Will do a test and tach it tomorrow.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2024, 10:29:58 PM »

This is my Castle ESC .DAT file if you want to download it.
Upload it into your CastleLink software and see if it loads.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2024, 08:22:55 AM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 05, 2024, 10:29:58 PM

This is my Castle ESC .DAT file if you want to download it.
Upload it into your CastleLink software and see if it loads.

Thanks a bunch Brent. I’ll give it a try in a few and report back. 👍🏼

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2024, 10:57:40 AM »

Ok gave it a try. Seems a little better. The only change I see is the Head Speed Change Rate.
I’m not sure what effect that has.
After running a few tests the RPMs did change but some strange things happened and has happened. Let me explain.

Using the timer program box:
I set the rpm as low as it would allow. 8430.
The motor was tach’ed at about 7k
I’m assuming the box is in need of an update.

Set rpm to 10524 - tach’ed 9300
Set rpm to 10728 - I shut it down when it hit 15k on the tach. I could have been in 3 blade setting by mistake. I just did not want to chance it.
Set rpm to 10592 - tach’ed 9340
Set rpm to 10660 - tached 9360

So now I go back into the ESC to review the settings and now the desired head speeds all have negative numbers. Will post a screenshot below this post via taptalk.

I did also notice that the start up beeps have changed to just 1 beep the two beeps.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2024, 11:00:31 AM »

Desired head speeds went from blank to negative numbers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2024, 11:14:58 AM »

Is it possible that the number of magnets is set wrong someplace? The difference is roughly the difference between 12 and 14 polls. Just a brain storming shot in the dark. Hope you get it right. On mine I never paid much attention to what the TAC said. I just flew it till I had it where I wanted then recorded what the box said and used that as a baseline.

Ken

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #20 on:** August 06, 2024, 11:22:42 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on August 06, 2024, 11:14:58 AM

Is it possible that the number of magnets is set wrong someplace? The difference is roughly the difference between 12 and 14 polls. Just a brain storming shot in the dark. Hope you get it right. On mine I never paid much attention to what the TAC said. I just flew it till I had it where I wanted then recorded what the box said and used that as a baseline.

Ken

Thanks Ken
It’s set to 14.
Cobra 3520/12 manual says 14 poles.
I’m curious as to why it took the liberty to put negative numbers in the desired head speeds.

Castle are high dollar ESC with too many variables.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2024, 11:41:34 AM »

The negative headspeed numbers are no worries.
Did you adjust the motor info to the Cobra 3520/12 motor's 820kv?
If you are running a 4s system, it should generally be set at 14.8v, and 5s would be 18.5v.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2024, 12:32:26 PM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 06, 2024, 11:41:34 AM

The negative headspeed numbers are no worries.
Did you adjust the motor info to the Cobra 3520/12 motor's 820kv?
If you are running a 4s system, it should generally be set at 14.8v, and 5s would be 18.5v.

Yea I changed the KV and the voltage is the same.

Are the number of beeps the same as your getting? I know it supposed to play a happy tune and tell you how many batteries it sees. 🤓

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2024, 01:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Paul Taylor on August 06, 2024, 11:22:42 AM

Castle are high dollar ESC with too many variables.

Agreed, that in part is why I switched to the Jeti Spin Pro. Just as high dollar, maybe more but simple to set up. The nice thing about active timers is that they replace most of the things the high end ESC's do. Lots of R&D going on there. I expect my Fiorotti to be obsolete soon.

Ken

Brent Williams · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2024, 01:38:21 PM »

The Climb/Dive timer is quite easy to set up via bluetooth on your phone, and uses cheapo ESC's.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2024, 01:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 06, 2024, 01:38:21 PM

The Climb/Dive timer is quite easy to set up via bluetooth on your phone, and uses cheapo ESC's.

Yea I’m leaning that way.

I just did another test.
Set the rpm to 10796 - it did tach at over 16k !!!
It also shuttered at ramp up start, not like on the initial push of the button. Never experienced that before.

Something is definitely wrong. Maybe a bad FM9?

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2024, 02:56:33 PM »

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!

Just for giggles and grins I decided to scroll through the different modes of ESC. There are a few for Phoenix. The some other brands. And then up pops Phoenix NEW high. I read it in the manual Phoenix HIGH and thought that was the setting in the manual.
When scrolling through the list of ESC’s, the NEW high is not listed close to the other Phoenix modes.

It is now working as I would expect it when changing rpms.
Thanks everyone for jumping in and pushing me to think. I like it when I learn something.
I’m living proof you can teach an old dog a new trick. 🐶

Motorman · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2024, 08:59:38 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 04, 2024, 09:31:37 PM

Hubin Fm9, Phoenix New High for Edge Lite 50
Phoenix High RPM for Ice Lite 50

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2024, 06:28:32 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 06, 2024, 08:59:38 PM

Noted. Thanks. 😊

Mike Alimov · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2024, 06:54:52 PM »

Quote from: John Paris on August 04, 2024, 01:52:24 PM

Paul,
I trust that you have the kV for your motor set right in the settings for the motor and have enough volts to spin at the speed you are looking for. Setting the battery on the throttle page will help see if you are in the right range.I normally run mine around 10K rpm in relatively light planes, but have run this set up in a 70 ounce SV without issue as well (although it has been a while). Normally I use the Set RPM mode and preset my ESC to the speed I desire in #2 a little slower in #1 and a little faster in #3 until I am more familiar with what is needed. On the FM-9 I use Phoenix set RPM and choose #2 and do a quick hop to see if it is what I am looking for and add or subtract as needed. Cannot say as I have ever gone back and tached the prop but the RPM has been inline with the setting on the ESC that the FM-9 has selected according to the info downloaded from the ESC.

Will be curious to learn what you find out. FWIW, I think that there was some discussion on SH from Mike Alimov regarding the throttle RPM in the Phoenix ICE/EDGE not matching up well with what was actually put out. Do not recall the outcome of that discussion since I generally use the Set RPM settings.

Regards,
John

John's recollection is quite correct, and even though this specific issue was solved, I will summarize it for the benefit of others who use the Hubin FM-9 timer.
In summary, when a Castle Talon ESC is being programmed in the Phoenix New High mode, there will be a discrepancy in set RPM vs actual RPM. In order to get the actual RPM out of Talon, the FM-9 programmer needs to be set to the Castle Talon mode. If your programmer doesn't have that mode available, thatmeans it is an older version. It can be updated by ordering a new chip from Will Hubin, replacing the old chip in the programmer box.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2024, 08:34:19 AM »

Well I guess I had the old chip. I couldn’t get the desired Rpm / lap times using the Castle- FM 9 setup.
When going with set rpm settings it really drained the battery.

So maybe I created the battery issue using the set rpm settings.

My fix was a BA ESC and a C&D timer.
But still need a little more battery because the C&D does a speed up at the end. I think I can disable it but I like it to setup the landing. 👍🏼

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #31 on:** September 24, 2024, 11:13:44 AM »

Quote from: Paul Taylor on September 24, 2024, 08:34:19 AM

But still need a little more battery because the C&D does a speed up at the end. I think I can disable it but I like it to setup the landing. 👍🏼

What batteries are you using? I have found that Li-Ion can stand abuse far greater then Lipo. I regularly use 90% of the mah and keep them charged for days at a time. The ones I am using now are approaching 100 cycles on some and there are no signs of problems. My point - keep the full power at the end. Landings are so much better. If you are already using Li-Ion - Never mind.

If the battery police are listening in, I didn't write this, I was hacked.

Ken