News:



  • May 26, 2024, 03:09:45 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich  (Read 867 times)

Offline mccoy40

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« on: May 03, 2020, 10:13:32 AM »
All,

I did a search for these conditions in the engine set up tips but could not seem to find any clear answers.

I have a fox 35 that struggles to run correctly. It appears to burn off its prime and then shut down. It also a day ago or so ran for more than the prime but did  so raggedly - sometimes appearing to struggle to stay alight and at other times running more decently. Decently as in rich but steady.
I have replaced the needle valve with an ST needle valve - re-did all the surgical tubing and  tightened the mounting bolts to get rid of the possibility of a loose mount. I checked the needle valve for the so the fuel hole is pointed in the right direction - it's about in a 4:00 position on a clock face.

I am thinking of swapping out the Tank for a new one and then cleaning the old one.

Is there a Gasket somewhere that is broken possibly - like the one on the Backplate? It seems to draw fuel from the prime enough to get to the combustion chamber but it doesn't continue to draw fuel after it burns off the prime

I'm still fiddling with it - but I am at a loss to figure out what is going on

Any suggestions would be helpful

 H^^
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12822
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2020, 12:06:47 PM »
Have you replaced the glow plug?  Not just looked for glow; have you replaced it?

If it can't draw fuel then it would be running lean, not rich.

If it's running, you can test this -- opening the needle makes it richer, so if it slows then its rich, and if it speeds up its lean.

A bad leak in the crankcase usually keeps the engine from being able to pump air into the cylinder --  so it'll pop and porble after a prime, but really only ever fire off on one revolution.  I'm not sure what a super-mild leak in the crankcase would do, but I'd expect unreliable running, but probably on the lean side rather than rich.

I'm assuming you're doing this on the ground, with the engine in a plane.  Can you see the fuel feed to the venturi?  If your tank has a leak then there will be bubbles in the fuel line to the engine -- do you see bubbles, or a solid flow of fuel?

I'm out of ideas now -- although, if it's convenient trying it on a test stand is a good idea.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Bootlegger

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2710
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 01:17:09 PM »

When I use a single hole spray bar I always set the hole at 5 P M  or 7 P M depending witch aide the needle is on, looking at the engine from the prop, and it has always worked for me, hope that this helps..
8th Air Force Veteran
Gil Causey
AMA# 6964

Offline mccoy40

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2020, 08:33:43 AM »
Thanks for the replies!

The plug has been swapped out from the beginning  - I may do it again with a different plug - I am using a fireball short currently.

I also replaced all the fuel tubing as a possible part of the problem -

I was thinking that because it does run - though poorly - that there wasn't an issue with the crankcase pressure - but you are right - it would run lean if it was leaking.

the hole in the spraybar is not centered in the middle of the Venturi. I will remove the spraybar and reset the position with a washer.

The st needle valve is one of the older ones I got a while ago. I usually give any engine equipment a once over to determine if it is correct.
But I wouldn't know if the spraybar- needle is poorly made - visual inspection it looked good.

I ran one of my other foxes on another plan yesterday and it fired up fine with my normal prime etc.

SO.... believe Me I am as confused as the rest of you - When I get it to gurgle again I will try to see if I can lean it out

I'm also going to replace the crankcase gasket if all else fails, take care of the possibility of a minor leak

 H^^ S?P
 
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12822
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2020, 09:18:46 AM »
A rough check of the crankcase seal is to slowly turn the motor over -- as the piston descends, you should hear a "phut" when the transfer ports open.  It's more obvious with the plug out or the head off (you can feel the puff of air on your lips if you hold it close to your face, and you can't confuse it with the compression stroke), but once you know what it is you don't need the plug off.

If it has enough seal to "phut" when you pull the prop through slowly (one revolution every second or two) then I don't think that's your problem.  You could certainly pull it through slower and see (with a perfect seal you could take a year and it'd still "phut") -- but I couldn't tell you how slow is too slow for the test.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Terrence Durrill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 605
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2020, 10:22:02 AM »

The Fox .35 head was designed to use a "long" plug.  I would replace the Fireball short with a Fireball long medium to hot plug.     D>K       H^^

Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6902
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2020, 11:40:22 AM »
   Yes, the short plug could be all of the problem. For the engine to run properly the element needs to 'see" a proper amount of fuel for the combustion cycle to happen naturally. if it doesn't, it will misfire and seem to run rich because it isn't burning the whole fuel/air charge.  I know the Fireball plugs are priced pretty cheap, but if you have to use three to get one good one, what are you saving?  Especially for sport flying, and good quality glow plug should last a long, long time, like a flying season or two.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13747
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 07:45:31 PM »
The Fox .35 head was designed to use a "long" plug.  I would replace the Fireball short with a Fireball long medium to hot plug.     D>K       H^^

I would  not  use  any Fireball plug, about 80%  of  all the  many dozens  I have bought  are  bad, They  have  very bad  seals in them
Best plugs to use on the  FOX 35 is  the   ST300 Glow Devil, or  the  SIG RC long,  Thunderbolt RC long,  or  most  any  good  HOT  long plug

Randy

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13756
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 08:16:31 PM »
Worthless "me too" post - I agree with everyone else, Fireballs are nearly worthless, due to extremely low yield. When I was running a Fox, many years ago, I used a Fox Standard Long plug with no problems. About 10% or so are bad, but you can weed those out by looking at the element. I was not nearly as picky about it as I would be now, but I ran whatever plugs I could find, and it wasn't at all fussy about plugs.

   The only other plugs I categorically will not use are Rossi plugs. They never had a problem leaking or coming apart, but they seem to cause the "quit like you flipped a switch" problem repeatedly. And it didn't seem to matter which style or type of Rossi plug, they more-or-less all the ones I tried did that, and on various engines, maybe it's something about the alloy of metal in the element, all I know it they are poison.

    Brett

Offline mccoy40

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Re: Fox 35 stunt - runs off it's prime and runs rich
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2020, 02:23:18 PM »
Thank you all for the replies.

I was able to getthe engine tuned up

The first thing was I switched to a new jug of fuel - that helped tremendously.

Second (this is kind of embarrassing) when I got the engine running - it was very Rich. I adjusted the needle valve about a half turn and I was able to get it to start - better but still rich - I kept leaning it out (almost a full turn of the needle valve and it came into the good 4 stroke.)

Now it runs fine and starts easily  :o

The St needle valve was backed too far out - I thought I had set it at 3 and 1/2 turns - but it really ran well after adjusting it correctly.

 ~^


P.S. I feel like an idiot ! (but at least I fessed up)
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here