Author Topic: Which Klotz oil should I use?? (Read 2298 times)

frank mccune · « **on:** November 15, 2018, 10:17:27 AM »

Hi All:

Which Klotz oil should I use in my engines?

Tia,

Frank McCune

RandySmith · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2018, 11:56:18 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on November 15, 2018, 10:17:27 AM

Hi All:

Which Klotz oil should I use in my engines?

Tia,

Frank McCune

Mixing your own fuel, you can use the techniplate which is 1/4 castor or use the regular Klotz with all synthetic, I do not recommend using the low viscosity oil

Randy

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2018, 12:25:24 PM »

Randy,

What problems do you see in using the thinner #189 heli oil?
I’m asking because I prefer it from the Techniplate.
I was a little worried of wrist- and crankpin but so far no measurable wear.. L

RandySmith · « **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2018, 09:40:38 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 15, 2018, 12:25:24 PM

Randy,

What problems do you see in using the thinner #189 heli oil?
I’m asking because I prefer it from the Techniplate.
I was a little worried of wrist- and crankpin but so far no measurable wear.. L

Hi Lauri

I see extra wear with people using that oil, I have also done test on it, and it does not have as good lubricating properties as either of the other Klotz oils, and it also will not take the same pressures. and the larger the engine, the more it seems to show the extra wear.

Randy

RandySmith · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2018, 09:41:59 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 15, 2018, 12:25:24 PM

Randy,

What problems do you see in using the thinner #189 heli oil?
I’m asking because I prefer it from the Techniplate.
I was a little worried of wrist- and crankpin but so far no measurable wear.. L

Lauri the first place it shows up, is on the wrist pin and the top of the rod

Randy

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2018, 12:20:02 AM »

Thanks for verifying this, Randy.
I like the #189 because it gives better running symmetry than thicker oils.
Have you found a difference in wear between using carbon props and lighter wood props?
If problems appear, I still have an option to super-polish the crank- and wristpins and having them diamond coated. L

RandySmith · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2018, 10:05:35 AM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 17, 2018, 12:20:02 AM

Thanks for verifying this, Randy.
I like the #189 because it gives better running symmetry than thicker oils.
Have you found a difference in wear between using carbon props and lighter wood props?
If problems appear, I still have an option to super-polish the crank- and wristpins and having them diamond coated. L

Hi Lauri
No I have seen no difference at all between the 2 types of props, in any engine except the FOX 35, and then it is between wood vs plastic props, carbon ones are excellent on the FOX

Randy

Vitalis Pilkionis · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2018, 10:22:35 AM »

Klotz KL-205 is PAG oil (good for A/C compressors). Better oils are ester based. Don't know about KL-198 though.

Vitalis

Quote from: Motorman on November 17, 2018, 07:56:24 AM

Klotz KL-205 Original Techniplate is the fully synthetic oil.

pmackenzie · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2018, 12:34:10 PM »

Pretty sure Motul is one, Yatsenko used to recommend it for his motors, but no idea which specific type.

https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products?country_name=ca&facets[range]=46&locale_name=en-US

edit - could be Motul Micro, will ask a buddy who uses it........

https://www.vpracing.fr/micro-motul-synth-oil,us,4,vp0130.cfm

Vitalis Pilkionis · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2018, 01:07:27 PM »

Quote from: pmackenzie on November 17, 2018, 12:34:10 PM

Pretty sure Motul is one, Yatsenko used to recommend it for his motors, but no idea which specific type.

Not sure about Motul Micro. Actually think it's not. But Fuchs Aerosynth 3 definitely is (was, 'cause it's out of production). And some people claim Avenger 2 by SPLube also.

Vitalis

pmackenzie · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2018, 01:14:00 PM »

Looking more I found conflicting info about Motul, mainly third hand that it was not ester based.....

Brett Buck · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2018, 02:35:36 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 17, 2018, 12:20:02 AM

I like the #189 because it gives better running symmetry than thicker oils.

Heh! I was assured that stuff like that didn't matter, and that all our experimenting along these lines was a waste of time...

If this is what you are seeing, your internal ballistics approach might not fix it. Look at the fuel feed system instead, in particular, fuel flow restrictions. Even if you are only using a tiny amount of fuel, and the static/DC component of the flow is not consequentially restricted, the dynamic/AC part of the flow might be.

Brett

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2018, 03:34:34 PM »

Heh indeed Brett.
As a sidenote, I have changed the scavenging and now use 110...115ml instead of the older 75..80ml.
Basically I made rear ports smaller and it made scavenging less efficient.
Lost power was no problem, I could get it back with bigger venturi.
As a result the engine is easier to adjust, has more usable power and is quieter. Running symmetry is not an issue anymore.
I don't know if I can give an explanation for better symmetry that pleases you. I doubt it's in fuel delivery system exactly as you say, at least I have tried so many things in that area without any dramatic findings.
But of course all ideas are welcome.
I think thinner oil is better simply because it leaves less residual oil behind in crankcase. It's a quite logical explanation when I think of those situations during flight where the burps and other weird stuff happens. L

Brett Buck · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2018, 04:56:31 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 17, 2018, 03:34:34 PM

But of course all ideas are welcome.
I think thinner oil is better simply because it leaves less residual oil behind in crankcase. It's a quite logical explanation when I think of those situations during flight where the burps and other weird stuff happens.

All I can say is David and I have done a lot of experiments along these lines, and could get the same improvement in these occasional odd speed/mixture changes by opening up fuel flow restrictions (like in the spraybar) that you get with thinner oil. The most compelling was the regenerative heater I put on the header to pre-heat the fuel before it went into the spraybar.

The other effect we have found is related to your point, at the very least, the variation of oil drag can apparently have big effects on the way it runs, and the tighter the tolerances, the bigger the effect.

Brett

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2018, 12:32:17 AM »

I must see what I can do to ease flow in my remote valve, but at least I could make a venturi with bigger ø fuel post. I think it’s 0,7 or 0,8 now.
I use a PA valve, what parts did you drill bigger? L

Brett Buck · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2018, 01:28:52 AM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on November 18, 2018, 12:32:17 AM

I must see what I can do to ease flow in my remote valve, but at least I could make a venturi with bigger ø fuel post. I think it’s 0,7 or 0,8 now.
I use a PA valve, what parts did you drill bigger? L

What, are you trying to get me killed?

But, if you were to counterbore the spraybar from the inlet side (short of the seat by about 1/16" - 3/32" so you still have a seat for the needle), that might be worth trying. Or, since you are making your own venturis anyway, use a Jett spraybar which already has a relatively large inlet diameter.

BTW, all the other people who are about to go do this (probably unnecessarily), don't blame me when you break off the drill in the hole, or drill all the way through and destroy the seat, and have to get a new one from Randy.

Brett

Author Topic: Which Klotz oil should I use?? (Read 2298 times)

frank mccune

Which Klotz oil should I use??

RandySmith

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Lauri Malila

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

RandySmith

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

RandySmith

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Lauri Malila

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

RandySmith

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Vitalis Pilkionis

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

pmackenzie

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Vitalis Pilkionis

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

pmackenzie

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Brett Buck

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Lauri Malila

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Brett Buck

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Lauri Malila

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??

Brett Buck

Re: Which Klotz oil should I use??