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Author Topic: What effect does weather have on engine performance?  (Read 1079 times)

Offline frank mccune

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What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« on: October 24, 2022, 04:25:15 PM »
     Hello All:

     Today, my friend and I had a terrible time to get good engine runs.  The big change was the change from in a high pressure environment to a low pressure one.  Does barometric pressure have a large impact on our engines?

      Stay well,

      Frank

     

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2022, 05:59:43 PM »
     Hello All:

     Today, my friend and I had a terrible time to get good engine runs.  The big change was the change from in a high pressure environment to a low pressure one.  Does barometric pressure have a large impact on our engines?

      Stay well,

      Frank

   

     It may affect your needle setting a bit, but not affect your engine runs. Look for issues in the typical places like fuel, tank, fuel filter, etc..

     Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2022, 07:40:44 PM »
     Today, my friend and I had a terrible time to get good engine runs.  The big change was the change from in a high pressure environment to a low pressure one.  Does barometric pressure have a large impact on our engines?
   

  It has an effect, higher pressure = higher air density, etc. However, your pressure didn't change very much, certainly not enough to significantly screw anything up. A minor tweak at most, a click or two in on the needle.

     Brett

Offline Reptoid

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2022, 01:35:07 AM »
     The answer really depends on several factors; The important number is really "Density Altitude " which is effected by temperature, altitude relative to sea level, barometric pressure, and to a small extent by humidity. A small change won't have much effect but a big swing will definitely change the needle setting required to achieve the same type of run.
     For example: our local field at Whittier Narrows in So Cal is at about 210 ft ASL. the average DA is probably between 600ft and 1200ft. On a cold crisp winter morning it can be -400ft and on a hot humid summer day it can sometimes get above 3500ft. A big change like that will affect needle setting (mixture), lift/drag of the airframe, and the efficiency of the propeller. I have seen it change +2000 ft from early AM to afternoon requiring the needle to be turned in to achieve the correct mixture.
     The mixture will vary (higher density altitude will require leaner setting) and even after you correct the mixture, the power will be less at the higher DA. You can retrieve some or all of the power by raising the Nitro content, compression, or venturi size, but each of those can have side effects, and the nitro adjustment is the easiest and most practical. Even with those adjustments, the propeller will still be less efficient and the aircraft will produce slightly less drag and less lift (turn authority in our application)
     Highly tuned smaller engines (F2D .15's and/or 1/2A speed/combat engines) will be affected more than larger mildly tuned broad range stunt engines like .40 thru .77 and engines running very low or no nitro (0-5%) will be effected more than those running 10 to 20% due to the broader mixture range of higher nitro fuels.
   All that said; day to day changes and even week to week in most locations will only require a slight needle adjustment one way or the other, or maybe a slight bump in nitro content for midsummer higher DA's.
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Online Brett Buck

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2022, 06:42:17 AM »
     The answer really depends on several factors; The important number is really "Density Altitude "


Howard would like to have a word with you....


Quote
which is effected by temperature, altitude relative to sea level, barometric pressure, and to a small extent by humidity. A small change won't have much effect but a big swing will definitely change the needle setting required to achieve the same type of run.


   I snipped the rest of it since it was a good overview. My point was that the barometric pressure just can't change all that much compared to the other factors.  If you want it in terms of density altitude, it might make 500 or so foot difference - not nothing, but also, not to the point that a needle tweak won't correct for it. If it was me, and I wanted to really hi-fi it for 500 feet change, I might go from 10% to 12.5% nitro just to get the needle back.

    That also shows why "density altitude" - a pilot's rule of thumb - is not particularly representative of the performance change. Going up in actual altitude/pressure altitude by 1000 feet  has a huge effect, whereas going up in "density altitude" by 1000 feet due to temperature - 15 deg F - is something you can almost ignore. We routinely deal with 2500+ change in "density altitude feet" with no changes aside from half a needle width tweak. When I go to Tucson, actual altitude 2200 feet, I run YS 2020* instead of 10% sport fuel, and even then, have to add some pitch as well.

   Now we know Frank *does* have a pretty workable and tolerant engine,  a *stock* 46LA, that even from the worst-case pressure change it should be a few clicks of the needle. This strongly suggests something else was different, because engines don't just run drastically differently or fail to run at all just from the barometric pressure changing over the normal range for the continental US.

    Brett

*the sound it makes running YS2020 is utterly indescribable - not loud (actually probably quieter on a meter than 10 or 15), but completely unique.

Online Brad LaPointe

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2022, 06:56:03 AM »
Temperature can really effect castor based fuels . Up here in the Great White North  - when I sometimes have a flying withdrawal moment and we get a calm day ,digging out a beater for a couple of flights sometimes seems like a good idea …for a while .

Castor based fuels will not flow unless warmed up prior to flight . Klotz and Ucon are your friends in sub 0 conditions . -10 c and lower means that it’s officially a building day .

Brad

Offline frank mccune

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2022, 02:52:25 PM »
     Thanks for the prompt replie!

     That is what I thought.  My flying Mate asked me to post this question on SH and as he is much smarter than I, I posted it.

      Stay well,

      Frank

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2022, 11:19:24 AM »
Weather will affect engine performance. But to what degree might be a topic of discussion.

I usually start my day flying pretty early in the morning. It can be 50F at 8am, then increase to 80F by noon, and 95 by 3pm. Not unusual where I live. If I set my needle in the early morning, I do notice the engine becoming 'slightly' richer as the day heats up if I don't readjust the needle. But I do mostly sport flying and the change is really not enough to affect my flying. I do sometimes reset the needle a bit. For sport, I normally don't tach my engine on every flight. Some flyers tack and adjust to the prop speed they want on every flight. 

To me (maybe I am wrong) it is all about fuel-air ratio (or oxygen-fuel ratio). As the outdoor air heats up, the air is less dense and there is less oxygen available to fully burn the set amount of fuel. Therefore, the richened effect. Probably the same thing happens w/ changes in atmos pressure.

For sport flying, not a big deal. But for competition, probably a big deal.

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2022, 11:51:11 AM »
[quote author=Colin McRae
To me (maybe I am wrong) it is all about fuel-air ratio (or oxygen-fuel ratio). As the outdoor air heats up, the air is less dense and there is less oxygen available to fully burn the set amount of fuel. Therefore, the richened effect. Probably the same thing happens w/ changes in atmos pressure.
[/quote]

Correct, but perhaps the richening comes more from the fuel viscosity change as it warms up during the day. Difficult to say which has a stronger effect. L

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2022, 12:04:30 PM »
[quote author=Colin McRae
To me (maybe I am wrong) it is all about fuel-air ratio (or oxygen-fuel ratio). As the outdoor air heats up, the air is less dense and there is less oxygen available to fully burn the set amount of fuel. Therefore, the richened effect. Probably the same thing happens w/ changes in atmos pressure.


Correct, but perhaps the richening comes more from the fuel viscosity change as it warms up during the day. Difficult to say which has a stronger effect. L
Agree!
Thx

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 12:30:54 PM »
About "Density Altitude". We have a contest in Salem, Oregon, commonly on the first weekend in October. I came from Eastern Oregon via Santiam Pass, which had a blizzard hit the night before. Was in 4wd much of the way. Got to Salem, and it was around 27F at the flying field. Bruce Hunt had a fancy little electronic gizmo that reported the temp AND Density Altitude. It said we were around 1,100' BELOW sea level. I reckon the barometric pressure was very close to 32 inches of mercury.

It was no surprise that the glow guys didn't have enough fuel capacity. Howard wanted to fly his electronic ImpAct, and Paul said it was a bad idea. Like the glow guys, Howard's battery ran out before the tricks were all done. I think Paul said "I told you so!". But that was fairly early in the AM. By 11am, it was warm enough that complete patterns were being flown. That might have been the weekend that Dave Royer introduced some of us to adding 2 > 6 oz of Coleman Lantern/Stove fuel to a gallon of glow fuel.  D>K Steve
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: What effect does weather have on engine performance?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2022, 01:01:41 PM »
When it is really cold you have to wear gloves to flip the prop and that makes it harder to start. LL~

Ken
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