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Author Topic: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51  (Read 5411 times)

Offline tom brightbill

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List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« on: December 21, 2013, 09:53:20 AM »
Same idea as Bill Little did for the LA-46,  but please add if it's stock or has been reworked and who by.  Thanks.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 01:37:42 PM »
I really like these engines.  Like every engine I've ever had or used its box-stock.  If you can't make it run well with fuel, plug, prop and Venturi size then it was not meant for stunt.  With this one it's just like the old .46 except it sounds 'strained' with more than an 11" prop (x6). At least 22% oil in 10-12.5% nitro fuel.  Launch in a four cycle.

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Offline RandySmith

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 06:36:45 PM »
Box stock they are terrible, the after thought about the venturie(restrictor) with the NVA stuck up at the top make life very hard for many trying to run these on built up planes, tank settings are hard, they work better with a true venturie and the NVA located back down where most all others are.
Not to mention many if not most of the China ones NEED to be gone thru to check rods, rings, etc, seen a lot put in backwards and wrong gap or no gap rings, lots of factory broken ones too.

Randy

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
Although initially I had a lot of problems with my (Italian) G51 giving an uncontrollable run away I eventually discovered it was the fuel. Not enough oil causing overheating even with 20% all castor which was because it was extremely economical with fuel consumption. Switched to 25% oil and never looked back. Box stock standard with 12x5 prop, zero nitro and absolutely bags of power in a full 4 stroke the entire flight. The model was 59 ounces and 810 sq inch so not exactly small.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 09:12:23 PM »
Box Stock Eyetalian , carefull cool break in in winter . After a few hours running , any fuel'd do .

Had someone comment the run was as good as he'd seen at the world champs . Haveing seen videos know he meant ' of any ' rather than G-51s .

Tornado 10 x 6 3 blade and a 3 in. spinner , let it snarl , let it breath - cant be too choked up on the exhaust . The overweight oversize Silent muffler works well .
The 21/46 muffler fits ( maybe chop the tailpipe off ) as does the Q - 500 one . The props a bit quick , butll pull 2 kilos @ 63 in through 20 knots no bother .
Apart from hanging on , and twanging .018 llaystrate 7 strands in the bottoms of squares . A lighter chap'd need two hands , and Ive used golf shoes when its damp .

Needs a proper ' Engine Bed ' as they all do , profile'd have a half in. doubler back to the spar . This's got 1/2 Sq. bearers running to L.E. , ply side doublers , aryldited . 3/16 Sht. sides . 3 in. spinner .

So the things tied down with 1/8 unf steel bolts , so doesnt get ' vibration periods ' needle setting will get it switching smootlhy in the vertical 8s at middle of bottom or top loops , up or down , as required .

Thats the olde cowe with the undercarrage ripped out ( took 20 minutes with a disc grinder , was integraded securely  ) and thicker wing , for what Im not to sure . Had 3 in wheels , so engine was doing some work .

The other below at the same Wt. ( 70 oz. odd ) would waffle along on a 12 x 6 Tornado nylon , or Ive used a Master 12 x 6 wood - With the Silent Muffler . No Problem .
 Thinking a Custom 11 x 5 Tornado Three Blade in F/G will be best . The S6B 's 2 Kilos and it drags it through the scedule fine , if the tanks not full of rust .  >:(



Rumour here is one head gasket for Ea 5 % of Nitro ( Aus . - warm & dry )
ST 60 intakes fit , As case dimn's same as V 51 / 56 / 60 for the Intake Assy .

Gave them initial flights on the 1450 gramme profile 150% 54 in profile Peacemaker ( Flite Streak ) so as not to load them , or get galling - on a 12 x 6 . Got Three .
Gotta G 40 Ringed for the 10 x 4 three blade for the wind , as the 51 sounds a bit odd on that . For the smaller planes . The MB3 was 51 1/2 ( and 2 Kilo  n~ ) .
Hold on & stay with it . Need to depitch for much past 5 sec. laps , down to FIVE or so , Id think . NOT Modified . at all at all - just carefully run in .
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 09:32:27 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2013, 04:16:04 AM »
I have an Italian made G51 stunt engine and could never get it right, I shall watch with interest to see if there is anything that I didn't try. I know my tank set up was good (swopped the G51 out for another make of engine). The main problem was odd cases of runaway. I tried more (and even more oil) and most of the time the engine was OK, then the next flight it would run away. Try again and all was well ......... I gave up in the end. I later saw Pipemaker Mike's trials and tribulations with the G51, this led to Mike doing some extensive machining mods, I am not sure that it was successful in the end.
  Maybe I just got a bad one, although it wasn't even run in when I got it. Yes I did check and recheck for detritus in the NVA!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2013, 05:18:18 AM »
A advantage of a wide fuselage is you can set the tank outward , this improves the pick up overhead - or as hight increases . & richens it level .
I wouldnt expect entire consistancy on the switch untill its run a few hours in the air . Once bedded in it likes to haul the coal . A 55 Oz plane isnt really loading it,
as its reputed ( by the manufacturer ) to have more power than the V 60 - at higher rpm's . They also recomend a 11 x 6 , which though not brilliant , is a good place to start -
TEST . As it should RUN CORRECTLY on one , if to fast . A REAL 11 x 6 such as a oild Tornado or Top Flite , not one of the modern toothpick APCs or Master ( Black Nylon ) .
a 13 x 6 apc is more like it , a ton of weight to get horrendous gyroscopic prcession . But itll swing it o.k.  Likely the 12 x 6 Master , and Trim it to DEPITCH .
Say mark 1/2 chord on the underside , then say 3 mm forward from the trailing edge . Carefully remove this area from the back with a largeish sharp half round file , exactly .
then dress smooth ( should be stuff all in that , as you have it EXACTLY TRIMMED , if you marked it exactly Ea Side - use a Virneer Caliper . ) then dope .
Throw the heavy blade , if there is one , opposite TDC . This aligns it with the counterweight - and can SMOOTH opperation .

Firstly , are you useing a drop of amourall - as it could be foaming with a typical light modern front end . No harm in being salubrious with the epoxy on the fuselage forward of the spar .

Secondly , theyre a bit like the European things ( theres a thing ) in that they do not need nitro . Youre likely to find it runs better without . & 80 cc for the scheduels a benefit .
Mine blow the fireball plugs . The Enya 3 or 4 or the Italian S T plugs good .

Theres usually a quater turn on the needle across the break , coming up from rich. Particularly as 4 is cooler tha 2 - so the heats not in it . Without a Tacho its less missleading to needle IN to a Smooth 2 Stroke , then steadily open through the blat blat where its switching stationary richer to just the top of a steady four . No richer untill air tested .

Coming in on the needle from a stedy four stroke theres a quater turn from it starting to two stroke , to the point just elaborated - never get it first pop going in - likely the temperature shift hasnt happened . The Fireballs work good - for six flights if youre lucky , then they punch the element in, which the experts will tell you is overcompressed .
So in a light plane , throwing something like a additional 0.7 mm head gasket in couldnt hurt .

Useing normalish tounge mufflers burns the piston side brown . YUK . One has a minmum of ten hours on it , or fifteen - the pistons got a scorched T on top , otherwise clean there. the one with around five hours you can just see the T on the clean piston top - for what its worth .

ELSEWHERE HERE , others have prattled about useing 18 % oil ,  the gap up in the backplate to case can collect gook - and with a shift dump it - causeing problems . Maybe this is the trouble . ?
What they said was over 18 % oil caused grief . Once the things had a hour in the air , it should be sufficently bedded in for this to be no problem . I used a variety of cheap commercial fuel at times - 18 % shell or Castrol in it alledgedly . Recent internal inspection of both engines shows no wear . As its a twin ball race & ringed engine - it doesnt have high oiling requirements .

Id run in on the Red castor , later mixed  2 to 1 or 50 / 50 coolpower castor & Synthetic , or used their blend - but useually at 20 % or 23 %, sometimes 20 C & 3 Syn. as was for other engines also . Not keen on useing cheap oil on the more valuable engines , Consider the coolpower or that red stuff the better ones .

Putting a 10 x 6 on it and reving the snot out of it should clear it out or trash it if its suspect - most unlikely . This therefore would save a lot of stuffing about . a light aircraft wouldnt put a load on it to seat the ring unless carefull .This proceedure would bust the glaze .

maybe relevant : http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blog/2012/10/02/must-know-fuel-facts/ AND the ' Red Stuff is / was KLOTZ . thank you .  ;D

also ballasting the plane up to 65 / 70 Oz should get it working . Or buy all the worthless overweight planes - to get it to run well. And buy some strong lines. No pussyfooting about .
Running in was just tractoring about on the 12 x 6 dead steady revs, to get time on it . Once its all good , Id thought of throwing another wing on one 70 Oz Hurricane , as it was still overpowered ( and 52 in span oops . Longer moment had it flying accurate . Thats the one I tried the 13x6 APC on . Clouted the deck distracted in the bottom of a hourglass .
There was a white mark across one blade after as I knocked the right gear leg out & the prop bent back - still pulled up & finished the schedule , still got the prop .

Try a 11 x 6 wood , and youll find out what its about .  n1 pays to assemble the plane and controls securely with that power . Stretchs .016 solids discernably in a bit of wind .
 theyre a bit light . So build accordingly .
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 05:37:46 AM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 08:31:38 PM »
I was happy with 10-22 "GMA" Powermaster and would suggest 12.25 x 3.75 APC, 12-5 APC or 12.5 x 5 TT Cyclone prop as good starting places with a good stock G.51. It would seem sensible to also try the 12-4 APC, but I haven't run one. Last I flew my G.51 was in Edmonton in 2010, on the 12.25 x 3.75, with a stock timed CL cylinder. Prevously flew it with a retimed R/C cylinder, but that info would not apply to yours, so I'll stop.

If the engine doesn't run well or consistently, I'd look at ring end gap, but to do that, you would need to take the ring off the piston, which would then require replacing the ring. And I don't know a lot about that, so I'd bundle the piston/cyl. off to Frank Bowman (see vendor's forums). Which I need to do, in fact. The cylinders are heat shrink fit in the case. A Monokote gun will do the job.  H^^ Steve 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Robin_Holden

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 02:26:02 AM »
Morning fellas .
My set-up :

Sent my G51 , the C/L version to Tom Dixon.
Careful bench running in using all castor 20% straight fuel.
Enya #3 plug.

Fly with :
12x5 prop' , usually MAS.
Fuel is  half and half Castor / klotz synthetic with just 5% Nitro.
Nice throng 4 stroke at around 9,000 rpm in my profile Cardinal.
R/C tank with uniflow , no pressure.

That's it , dead reliable .

A Very Happy New Year from S.W.France to all.

Robin Holden.
Montignac le Coq.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
Same idea as Bill Little did for the LA-46,  but please add if it's stock or has been reworked and who by.  Thanks.

So Tom, are you going to share your setup?

You know: reworked by Tom Lay, fuel is peppermint soap Sig Champion (oil and nitro), etc.?
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Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 10:27:17 PM »
China-made version, sent to Frank Bowman for a new ring and lapping the head to cylinder fit; NVA in the base of the venturi where it "should" be (using existing hole for venturi-attachment screws); otherwise stock, original bearings. Sig 10-22 fuel (10-20 with added castor); tried lots of props but like 12-5 RevUp wood, though APC 12-4 or 13.25 x 3.75 would probably be good. Thunderbolt RC plug. This is one potent motor, equal to ST 60 IMHO. Pulled Score ARF with no problems at all. Good stunt run qualities, no problem with heat or runaways. This is at sea level in Northern California.

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 12:30:36 AM »
 I have a lot of time on these things,, I liked a .204" trubore W/spicket  with an Eather 12-4.5 wide blade cut to a 11.5 at 9,600 rpm.,, .210" W/APC 12-4  10,000 rpm on a pipe,,,  now I am liking a  .206" APC  12-7 at 8,000 ..  I had used Taffinders  10%--22% oil castor & Syn, it would quit on all castor but now I'm a 20% nitro all syn man " works for me"
  John

Offline EddyR

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 06:25:55 AM »
I have two for over 10 years. Both ran poorly. Finally I took both of them down and loosened the wrist pin put in Frank Bowman rings and ran them with stock needle valve setup and they run perfect. 12/4 prop on 18% oil,1/3 castor,9000+ RPM. Moving the needle valve down is easier to set up than the stock set up.The stock set up needs a deep fuselage to hold the tank as it is a long way off the motor mounts. I also found that the stock set up did not work very well on profiles. I have retrofitted them in to old ST/46 models with good results. y1
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 05:23:50 PM »
The one G.51 I've run originally had a "stock-like" venturi setup with the spraybar mounted above the c'case in the venturi. Can't say that the venturi was a stock one, as it was possibly made by Daniel D. Dirt, from whom I bought the engine (and the Mutant Magnum it was mounted in).

Last I flew it, it had recently gone to Tom Lay for a CL cylinder to replace the re-timed R/C cylinder, a new ring, and of course the Delrin venturi with spraybar drilled through the c'case boss that Tom always did. I didn't adjust the tank height, and it ran fine, except there was no compression, so the electric finger was mandatory. According to Ted's and Al's (Fancher and Rabe) experiments with moving the spraybar up/down the venturi made no difference. Still, I have found a muffler change to require a slight adjustment in tank height. Mysterious, huh?  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

John Leidle

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2013, 02:09:41 AM »
  Steve , my best Tiger has zero compression  real flat until I start it. mw~

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2014, 11:09:51 PM »
Italian isssue, gone through by Tom Lay, no longer avail, 11 x 4 wood Rev Up, 5%/22 all castor as per Toms instructions. One or two flip starts unless I flood  them.  Tom put the needle valve in the center of the venturi, where it belongs... Love them.  H^^

Ty...11 x 4 wood Rev Up? Might not be enough prop for the Magnum XLS .36 I gave Tim.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 03:35:37 PM »
Kit-built Brodak "Legacy", but some cosmetic changes, so I called it "Larceny".  ST51 re-worked by Tommie Lay Jr.  Scott Dinger tube muffler, plastic clunk tank.  An excellent flyer.  My only complaint is starting the ST.  It never gives a "bump" after the usual priming procedure.  Then, it will suddenly run full bore!  I have taken to using an electric start for this reason.  Once going, engine run is steady and powerful.

Floyd
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: List your set up for the Super Tigre G-51
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 01:31:56 PM »
12X6 Zinger 10/22 half/half Enya 3 plug Brodak 5oz uniflow no pressure DuBro muffler
68oz ship, lots of fun...



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