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Author Topic: Unknown Diesel Engine  (Read 1734 times)

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Unknown Diesel Engine
« on: May 12, 2015, 06:19:12 PM »
Hi all. I had wanted for a while now a diesel engine, and a friend at work brought one for me. He acquired it somewhere and gave it to me to use. It is gummed up good. There are no markings and was picked up from him in an estate and the owner did not know anything about it. So, I was just looking for some help in identifying it and what type of prop to use on it. There are no markings other than 100 stamped on the rear crankcase plug. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This has also been posted on another forum and has been said to be a P.A.W. engine.  So, now I would like to ask what type of plane would be suited for this engine.  Preferebly something easy, profile maybe?  As well, what prop would also be suited to this.  Thank you.

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 07:05:13 PM »
I have one just like it.
I think it's an 060.

Good engine, but in my opinion, poorly supported in the USA

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 07:12:07 PM »
Can I please ask what prop you use on yours.  I have mainly Master Airscrew props available locally.  APC is the other type I am aware of at the local hobby shops.  Thank you.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 08:03:41 PM »
http://www.eifflaender.com/enginepics.htm

http://www.eifflaender.com/instruct.htm

Throw it in a jar of kerosene for a couple days and it will likely be clean and free.  Remember that will effectively flood/prime the engine so be careful about flipping it through afterwards.  (no, model diesel fuel is not just kerosene, it has ether and castor oil too) 

I messed about with a diesel and I gave up.  I could not get fuel easily, and I could not get nice, easy operation.  I hope you have better results than I did.  They really are interesting machines. 

Phil

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 08:39:42 PM »
Thank you for the tip of putting it in the jar of kerosene.  I will do that hopefully tomorrow after work.  I had since last post disassemble it, sort of.  I had removed the prop nut, needle and spraybar and backplate, and the head screw.  I will as said earlier put it in kerosene hopefully tomorrow.  If not, I will wait till Monday after the long weekend, unless sitting in all weekend wont hurt it?  Is it hard to remove the head assembly to clean as well, or is it best to leave it together.  I had removed the screws but the head assembly did not come off.  I tried carefully by hand and NO tools.  Anyways thanks for the tips and links again.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 09:33:31 PM »
Just a little update.  I will just soak it in kerosene and not try to remove the head as i was doing some reading and the consensus is to leave it alone.  I would just like to know how to tell if the head is working properly or not.

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 04:24:41 AM »
Chancey, it's a PAW 100, which as Robert says, is an 060.   The best prop I've found for these is an APC 7x3, but you could try anything in the range of about 6x4 to 8x4.

I think you're wise not to remove the head, but seeing as you've got the backplate off, it'd be a really good idea to check that the conrod is moving freely on the wristpin.  If you're still having trouble freeing it all up after soaking it in kero, a bit of acetone works wonders (although you need a bit of movement in it first).

Quote
I would just like to know how to tell if the head is working properly or not.

The contrapiston may well be gummed in place, but just winding it in a very small amount should free it.  Don't be concerned if it doesn't blow back - it'll likely want some fuel in there before that happens.  With any luck the contrapiston will have been left in a decent running setting, so it's best to avoid messing about with it if you can resist the temptation.

You asked about models for it.  Anything that works with a Norvel 061 would be fine, or you could design your own simple profile model with a built-up wing of about 32"-35".  RSM do a couple of nice 1/2A kits as well.

Good luck with it!

Steve

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 06:01:58 AM »
Give a soak in a 150C oven for 15 minutes, that should free things up a bit and allow any solvent to do its work better.
MAAA AUS 73427

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 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline rustler

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 01:37:03 PM »
Are there any figures stamped in the backplate?
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 04:54:38 PM »
Yes, there is number 100 stamped in the backplate which relates to what Robert said is an .060, and Steve reassured me is a model 100, aka .060.  That was my initial guess as I picked up a 1.0cc Norvel that is a .061.  Thank you.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 05:23:18 PM »
If the contra piston is a bit stiff just take a heat gun and warm the head, let it heat soak and reheat then it should be easy to use the compression screw to move it. Fuel and run infor you could get from DOCTOR DIESEL Eric Clutton, 913 Cedar Lane, Tullahoma TN. 37388, USA PHONE: 1-931-455-2256.

Best,        DennisT

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 06:01:44 PM »
Problem here is the ball race, if its gummed up it could cause the balls to skid and quickly ruin the bearing.

Heat the entire engine, get some wiggling going on and this will allow the solvent of choice to actually get in and do its work.
Solvent therapy won't really work unless there are micro cracks and fissures for it to get into and penetrate, so if its badly glued up you need to weak points going first and the best way is through a heat soak.

For me its either pure acetone (as Steve says) or 50/50 acetone/ATF and then check that the balls spin freely and of course the wrist pin.

Good luck.
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2015, 06:51:34 PM »
Chris, it's very likely that it doesn't have a ballrace. The 06 that replaced the 100 has a single race as standard, but the 100 didn't.  I believe there were some 100BRs, but you'd expect them to have 'BR' stamped on one of the mounting lugs.

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 10:13:53 AM »
The one in the pictures looks identical to mine and mine is definitely plain bearing.

  Bob Z.

Offline Terry Caron

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Re: Unknown Diesel Engine
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2015, 03:18:56 PM »
Unverified, but I've been told that Eric Clutton no longer sells diesel fuel.
In any case, kerosene (or a scented "lamp oil" if you prefer), castor oil and ether are the components.
K-1 kero is available from many sources, including sevice stations.
Klotz castor oil is available from most hobby shops selling glow fuel and many motorcycle shops (for 2-stroke cycle engines); in a pinch, in 2-6 oz bottles at 'most any pharmacy.
Ether can be a bit problematic - John Deere Starting fluid is the best OTC source, containing the highest % ether, but any ether-based starting fluid should do. Punch a hole at the base of the can, pour into a dark glass container with a good sealing lid.

Ratios aren't super critical - in your (modern) engine 25% oil, 30-33% ether, balance kero should do just fine.
1-2% amyl nitrate/nitrite or other compounds are commonly added as oxidizers - perhaps worthwhile but very difficult to get and certainly not necessary.

Diesels can be a bit tricky to start initially, but once the needle/compression settings are found they're usually more easily started than glow engines - and no igniter needed.
And once you've learned on this one, any other should be a piece of cake for you.   ;)

best of luck with it,

Terry
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 01:14:29 PM by Terry Caron »
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