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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 01:56:27 PM

Title: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 01:56:27 PM
I recently bought a used TT .46 Pro.
I disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and tried a bench run.
It starts easily but runs backwards, at very low rpm, with a regular tendency to pop forward yet never makes the transition.

The cylinder liner is pinned so it's not in wrong.

Any thoughts, notions, suggestions?

Thanks.

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2015, 02:04:20 PM
I recently bought a used TT .46 Pro.
I disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and tried a bench run.
It starts easily but runs backwards, at very low rpm, with a regular tendency to pop forward yet never makes the transition.

The cylinder liner is pinned so it's not in wrong.

Any thoughts, notions, suggestions?

Thanks.

Terry

Check for and add an additional head shim, use a cooler plug, prime about 2 times then flip the engine over 10 times very fast to aerate the charge, then flip the prop backwards, it should fire front ways.
Are you running a carb or venturie?  nitro % ?  size of prop?

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 02:15:22 PM
No head shim, carb w/.295 bore (not sure if factory, marked DV-II, single needle), 6 1/2% nitro 22% oil, APC 11/5x4.

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2015, 02:30:04 PM
Add the head shim, or 2  that should stop it

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 02:34:32 PM
Add the head shim, or 2  that should stop it

Randy

Tnx Randy - do you know (or would you guess) the thickness of the head shim?
Don't have any, but can try making rather than wait.

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2015, 02:59:03 PM
Tnx Randy - do you know (or would you guess) the thickness of the head shim?
Don't have any, but can try making rather than wait.

Terry

You can make one anywhere from 5 to 10 thou, any of those should do it

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 03:03:19 PM
OK, I'll make a couple .005".
Would you explain what's happening?
I assume timing?

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Brian Hampton on January 12, 2015, 05:58:14 PM
Ordinarily that's a symptom of being badly flooded and is fairly normal with RC engines with the throttle at, or close, to idle even with just a bit of over priming. Try to ensure the engine is completely dry then prime with a few drops of fuel without the fuel line attached and see if it starts correctly. If so then make sure the needle valve is actually fully closing first before attaching the fuel line. I had one engine (brand new) that would run in a slobbering 4 stroke with the needle fully closed. Actually it was the barrel bottoming out on the threads, not the needle itself.

It's extremely unlikely to be a compression problem because I generally run mine at 12-13:1 with no problems.
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Dane Martin on January 12, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
I'm gonna agree with these fella's. I had the same issue with the .46 and .25. It was just my starting method. Too much fuel. Mine, i prime it 4 times, then flip it 5 or 6 Then attach the battery and go. Always fires up on that first flip.
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2015, 06:31:00 PM
OK, I'll make a couple .005".
Would you explain what's happening?
I assume timing?

Terry

It is VERY likely that compression is helping in causing this, The 46 is very high compressed and if you have  ZERO head shims in it, it can make it "diesel " and run backwards
What is most likely causing this is a combination of things ,too high compression,excess oil, afterrun or other oils  and /or excess amount of fuel charge inside the engine when you try to start it. the EXTRA COMPRESSION is making this much worse and aids in the running backwards. Sometimes with the very high compression the engine will start without a battery on it.
Try to clean out any excess oil, and fuel before you start it next time, and try one of the .005 head shims that your making.
You will also not blow as many plugs with a head shim in the engine, as with zero  shims.

If you start it again and it runs backwards, do not shut it off, instead pinch the fuel line to stop more fuel from going into the engine, it most likely  will pop back and run the other direction, even if it doesn't this will clean out the excess
Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 12, 2015, 06:41:04 PM
What's been said makes rather embarrassing sense, everyone.
I definitely primed it quite wet, several turns open needle, at full throttle.
I've made & installed a .004" shim; I'll try again tomorrow to first see if it'll properly burn just a light prime.

Thanks to all for your interest.

Terry


Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: John Leidle on January 12, 2015, 07:00:49 PM
  My Stalker .81 does just this. I believe it is very much over compressed. I added 1 head shim & it actually 4 stroked at a higher RPM.... 
  Work in progress, John
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Brett Buck on January 13, 2015, 10:06:42 PM
What's been said makes rather embarrassing sense, everyone.
I definitely primed it quite wet, several turns open needle, at full throttle.
I've made & installed a .004" shim; I'll try again tomorrow to first see if it'll properly burn just a light prime.

  I would leave it alone and try again. This is absolutely classic behavior when the engine is upright and you get the crankcase loaded before there is enough fuel in the cylinder to get it to start. This is why I hate starting upright engines.

    If it starts and runs weakly backwards, pinch the line off until it slows and just as it stops, release it. It will probably kick and run forwards. If it stops, release the line and flip forward. Still no luck, pinch the line, put a few drops in the venturi, and then go.

     Brett
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 16, 2015, 12:35:28 PM
The weather is finally cooperative enough to get outside to play, so I ran the engine a bit w/2 .004" shims, cooler plug.
It took a good bit of prime (about a dozen) and didn't diesel but the NV has little effect.
Has to be ~6 turns open to run and won't lean or richen appreciably, 11.8K-13.3K range.
Recommendations for a decent venturi/NVA assy?

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 16, 2015, 12:43:24 PM
The weather is finally cooperative enough to get outside to play, so I ran the engine a bit w/2 .004" shims, cooler plug.
It took a good bit of prime (about a dozen) and didn't diesel but the NV has little effect.
Has to be ~6 turns open to run and won't lean or richen appreciably, 11.8K-13.3K range.
Recommendations for a decent venturi/NVA assy?

Terry


Hi Terry

I of course make them, let me know If i can help, but  did the engine run the correct direction?  and is the  TT ventuire NVA setup or aftermarket or carb?

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 16, 2015, 01:17:16 PM

Hi Terry

I of course make them, let me know If i can help, but  did the engine run the correct direction?  and is the  TT ventuire NVA setup or aftermarket or carb?

Randy

It ran the right direction Randy.
It has a carb w/.295 bore, not sure if factory, marked DV-II, single needle.
It dies w/no leaning at less than ~ 4 turns, dies at ~8 turns w/little richening, when the needle unseals from it's body.

You mentioned excess oil in an earlier post - is 22% too much in this engine?

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 16, 2015, 01:53:41 PM
It ran the right direction Randy.
It has a carb w/.295 bore, not sure if factory, marked DV-II, single needle.
It dies w/no leaning at less than ~ 4 turns, dies at ~8 turns w/little richening, when the needle unseals from it's body.

You mentioned excess oil in an earlier post - is 22% too much in this engine?

Terry

NO The oil content is not what is causing the poor needling   unless you have old fule, or fuel with water in it

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 16, 2015, 02:00:45 PM
NO The oil content is not what is causing the poor needling   unless you have old fule, or fuel with water in it

Randy

Fuel is good - I was thinking of the high compression/dieseling issue.

Terry

Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Phil Krankowski on January 16, 2015, 02:47:06 PM
Forcefully flush the spray bar from both the threaded end and the fuel nipple with your fuel syringe. 

Is there a funny shoulder in the needle like it was crushed in over tight?  Was there any trash on the needle?  Is the needle straight? 

Phil
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 16, 2015, 03:24:28 PM
Forcefully flush the spray bar from both the threaded end and the fuel nipple with your fuel syringe. 

Is there a funny shoulder in the needle like it was crushed in over tight?  Was there any trash on the needle?  Is the needle straight? 

Phil

Passages are clear, needle straight and tapered Phil.

Terry
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: RandySmith on January 16, 2015, 03:56:24 PM
sounds like you do have something wrong with the carb, is this an engine you will use with a carb? or NVA for CL along with venturie. we can guess all day at what is wrong, but if your going to use it, sounds like you need a new carb  or venturie  setup

Randy
Title: Re: TT .46 Pro runs backwards
Post by: Terry Caron on January 16, 2015, 04:10:40 PM
PM sent Randy.

Terry