News:



  • May 01, 2024, 10:39:57 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Prop extenders  (Read 980 times)

Offline kevin king

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1536
Prop extenders
« on: March 01, 2022, 03:22:16 AM »
If you needed to move a prop and spinner forward a 1/4" on a ST 46, would it be ok to use a 1/4" washer behind the backplate?

Offline pmackenzie

  • Pat MacKenzie
  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 765
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2022, 04:34:24 AM »
That is basically what the prop extensions are  - spacers.
The ones I have made I knurled the front surface.
If they get long enough that you start to run out of thread, then you need to make a new nut and front washer.
Longer still, and you need to make them like the Fox ones are where the prop nut extends all the way through the prop and into the spacer.

Pictures "borrowed" from here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274055507444
MAAC 8177

Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6877
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2022, 09:13:19 AM »
   1/4" is an oddball amount. A lot of engines don't have enough crank shaft threads as it is. You can try a spacer behind the spinner back plate, if the back plate is an aluminum one that doesn't have the offset of most plastic spinners. See how things stack up. Then you would have to use a special prop nut like is pictured in pmackenzie's post and cut to custom length. Fox made those and so did a few other vendors but I'm not sure who does today. You need to ream the prop out to clear that shoulder on the "bolt". Some wpould refer that type of threaded fastener as a "sex bolt". The mounting hardware that is made for Tru-Turn spinners, and the hardware that Great Planes made for mount spinners has a nut and special washer that "reach in" a bit in order to grab as much thread as possible. You need at least 1/4" beyond the prop washer to be safe. You may want to consider moving the engine forward, or move the nose ring back the proper amount at this point, and I'm guessing that moving the nose ring back may be the easiest??
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline L0U CRANE

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1076
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2022, 01:03:09 PM »
Old (Froom?), VECO, K&B-VECO and Fox shaft extensions were either aluminum or iron 1/2" hex bar stock threaded full length 1/4-28 (prop nut size) then turned down to 5/16" outer diameter for most of their length. The prop and front prop washer, of course, had to fit 5/16". The spacer front was not usually knurled. Simple. NOTE: Good idea to have to spare drilled and balanced props handy in case of breakage.

The largest size on usual 4-way wrenches fits 1/2" (flat-to-flat) nuts that fit 5/16-24 nuts, or similar metric sizes. A spacer, as in the image, can go between the engine's prop drive washer and prop washer or spacer.
\BEST\LOU

Offline bob whitney

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2022, 08:52:40 PM »
put a wrench on that prop nut using a 4 way is marginal especially with a carbon prop
rad racer

Offline Dennis Saydak

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 595
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2022, 07:15:19 AM »
Kevin, talk to B. Paterson about making you a proper spacer.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline kevin king

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1536
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2022, 09:58:28 AM »
I checked the shaft length with The spinner, prop and 1/4" spacer and that method wont work. I would prefer not to have to shorten the nose or drill out props for a custom spacer & adapter. now Im thinking if its ok to fill the holes in the maple motor mounts with jb weld or Maple dowls & epoxy, and then re drill the engine mount holes a 1/4" forward. A side note: the plane was built and drilled for a PA 40, and the ST 46 has the exact same mounting bolt pattern.

Kevin

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 5000
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2022, 10:12:01 PM »
If you use one of these , mean likely drilling the prop oversize . or the front half of the prop oversize .


Theres 1`/2 & 3/4 Extnensions . Fox & Veco !

People with lathes do a intregal spacr / backplate . Simplify & add lightness .

As Yr 1/4 , likely trim the nut shaft shorter . Ive found misalaneous Auto ( junk Yard ) spacers  .
Alternator mounts , seat belt bolt spacers ( fit the 5/16 shaft driver - as noseweight  Fwd of Prop )
G M Stuff tends to have machined thick washers here'n'there . Reasonable quality mmild steel . Often Plated .
The 70s / 80s stuff anyway .
Any small engine outfit or ancient auto parts store might have something . A EVEN number of turns of masking tape or whatever , if needed . Centralises .
But often needs peeling off and re doing , if removed .

You need engineering Standard washers , not stamped sheet ones . Tho a BIG Stamp can do good ones by the million . So dont discount. Get the Vernier  out .
Engineers supplies etc might have a ' too fit ' , or a M'Cycle wrecker or Auto ditto may have buckets of them . Might need hand cleaner here ! .   =======

Save a bit of faffing about . andl keep the C G Back . M;Cycles more liable to have usable alloy ones . 2 minutes to machine up one at your local airport for A / C quality Alloy !!

Online Jim Svitko

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2022, 07:27:14 AM »
This engine mounting technique is not new.  It has been used before and I started using it a few years ago in case I had to swap engines.  With this method, if an engine swap is needed, and the new engine has to be moved forward or aft for balance or spinner clearance, tap new plates to fit the new engine mounting lugs and attach the plates using the existing holes in the maple mounts.

The black dots on the plate indicate hole positions in the plates to attach them to the maple mounts.  The center hole might not be necessary.  It is possible that you could have overlapping holes if the new engine has to be moved so much that the center hole in the plate comes too close or even overlaps one of the holes in the engine mount lug.

If you decide to use a center hole on the plates you will, of course, have to countersink it and use a flat head screw to go under the lugs.

The ASP has unusually large holes in the mounting lugs so I used 6-32 screws instead of shimming up those large holes.  Normally, a 4-40 or 3mm is fine and might be preferred to minimize the chance of having holes that are too close together or even overlapping if an engine swap is made.

The aluminum plate (bar stock) can be found at McMaster-Carr.  I usually use 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick depending on the engine and how much thread engagement is needed.  The aluminum sticks I use are 1/2 inch wide and are a 2024 alloy.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 07:55:30 AM by Jim Svitko »

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 5000
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2022, 07:58:03 PM »
One Fing . The ST isnt LIGHTER than the thinggo 40 , you could move the .46 BACK ! for balance .

SHORTENING the Prop Nut thing , so it only goes say into the FRONT Half Depth , keeps the props ' multi Fit . So still useable on other engines . Allowing the shank on the ST is 7 m.m. ,

Easiest way ( that ) is often a tenth the hassel ! .

Youd need to drill your 1/4 spacer 7 m.m. bore . FIT ALL THE BITS UP , see if there how much thread protuding , and cut Extn. type prop nut for sufficent engagement , say 7 threads min. With it washer accounted for.

Or Try That , and if its no good , whack right into it . When I have , I knok out the nut plates , Wash with thinner above bearers & holes , tape or fit flat wood held with wedges , pour aryldite into the oldbolt holes
and a skin of it across the dressed / block sanded / or Filed Clean & washed - motor mount face .

If Ive a pice of alloy plate the right width , thatll drop in . Maybe flat it all off with good epoxie , drop the plate in , mask edges to retain glue . then Clamp plate lightly . SO THE NEW FACES ARE ALREADY TRUE.
Or just dress the suckers after the stuffs set or kicked off . Theres some give till its cured . So the Clamped ( release agented ) plate can be a late fit . After kicked off- before fully cured .

I use say 1/16 steel with 1/8 N F nuts wider & longer on a ' re-do ' like 1 1/2 x 5/16 , or 2 x 3/8 if theres room . Carefully , Pilot Drill the new bolt holes . If there not in clean wood . A pilot templates essential
as they tend to wander .

So theres say three stages , remove fittings - Thorougly clean up & degrease - reform / reface mounts - redrill & refit for new set up . Contract seems to have escaletd . That Makes FOUR  . In for a bit of effort.

A trimmed fancy prop nut'd be a tenth the effort .

The Alumn Brodak Spinner Nuts , go through the FRONT WASHER , for max thread engagement . a steel one done like that would a be a the beast , eh .

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 5000
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2022, 08:00:41 PM »


Sorta like that . A decent full prop hub flat washer with the threaded bit, to there , going through . or flush . The COMO 40 / 51 have short noses , similar trick required if strapping debri on the nose .

The Smaller dia. plain bit , lenght to suit adequate threads to secure . Obviously , a top line machine job & maybe tempered steel , would beat pig metal .

================================================================================================================

off the shelf , for test .

https://brodak.com/shaft-nut-adapter.html 12 bucks .

Think thats the Std alun Spinner prop nut .

Offline kevin king

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1536
Re: Prop extenders
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2022, 01:09:37 AM »
Thank you Jim and Air Ministry. Great information! 👍


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here