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Author Topic: tempermental engines  (Read 1420 times)

Offline Gary Dowler

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tempermental engines
« on: June 18, 2017, 11:18:54 PM »
I was reading in the 1/2A threads about some people having engines that they never could get to run.  Ive experienced this with larger motors and Im wondering what other peoples experiences are.
The glaring example in my case were 3 Thunder Tiger 15's bought new back in the late 70's when they first came out.  Never once got one of them to fire back then, best I ever got was about a 1/2 second burp and that was it.  Flipped those props untold scores of times, different glow plugs, different fuels, nothing.  Eventually sold 2 of them and kept one. Not sure why.
Last year when I got back into the hobby after about 30 years away. I got out all of my old engines and determined to run them on a make shift stand.  Everything worked and then I looked at the Thunder Tiger 15 and decided I would try it again.  Nothing different about what I was using really, just dealing with an engine that had collected dust for nearly 40 years and had never done more than gurgle a few times out of dozens of tries and many hundreds of flips.  About the 40th flip it started!!!  The darn thing actually ran!  No idea why it finally decided to fire, but it did.  I was so excited.  Since then Ive run about 15oz of fuel through it over several runs on a now proper test stand.   Recently acquired a much newer Thunder Tiger 15 RC, NIB condition, and now I want to locate a TT RC carb for the old one and have a pair that I can put on a twin of some sort.

Anyone else had issues with motors that just never cooperated?
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Offline frank mccune

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 06:09:16 AM »
       Hi Gary:

       I will stick my neck out a bit here and relate what I have found concerning engines over the years.

1. Each engine needs its own starting drill. One must find this by perhaps by trial and error but once discovered, it works every time!

2.  One must be dynamic and willing to change the parameters that one 'thought" would be the correct starting drill for the engine.  Do not get stuck in the same routine thinking that one method fits all engines.  This I found to be very profound when working with Diesel engines! I had to record the best starting drill for each engine.

3. Expensive engines with great fits are much easier to determine what the proper starting drill is for each engine!  I have some old 40's era engines that have such poor piston to cylinder fits that they are not worth spend the time attempting to start them.  A new ring made and fitted by Mr. Bowman one of them an easy starter. 

4. Eliminate the small stuff first.  Things like fuel, battery output, battery leads, fuel tank, fuel lines, condition of the glow plug all threaded fasteners secure, etc.  "If you take care of the small things, you will not have big problems."  Recently a friend of mine asked me to look at his engine as it had lost all of its compression since the last time he used it. The first thing that I was going to test was the glow plug.  It was loose! Upon being tightened, the engine returned to being an engine that was very easy to start.  I got the above quote from this person! Lol 

      So not be hesitant to change your starting methods and check your equipment.  I got out my Cub .14 and Cub .19 from the 50's  and found that they were very easy to start by using what I have learned since the Good Old Days. Lol

       Keep us posted on your progress.

                                                                                                       Best of luck,

                                                                                                       Frank McCune

Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 09:34:12 AM »
Frank, I agree completely. Regarding this particular engine, and its two twins I let go of, I was far from sticking with a set routine. Over the 13 years I was actively flying I tried everything I could think of as well as everything anyone suggested. Nothing ever worked.  For reasons unknown to mere mortals it has suddenly decided it was time to start and run. I am not complaining a bit, I just wish I had kept the other 2 as well.
Profanity is the crutch of the illiterate mind

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »
Gary, my guess would be that your new found success with the TT .15 would be due to hotter glowplug and/or better battery.  ;D Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 08:32:22 PM »
About 10-12 years ago, I bought 3 new Fox 25BB motors to use for SL combat. Broke all 3 in properly. Used bladder pressure. Over the course of 2 years, could never get them to run consistently. Tried everything: different plugs, props, fuel (various Sig 20%+ oil, mostly castor), nvas, venturis and nothing worked. Never used them in a contest. Two had the main BB cage disentegrate, one had a crank come apart, and I did not use more than 10% nitro, never went smaller than an 8-4 schimitar prop.

Finally gave up on them and stuck with LA25s. No more probs.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 07:21:07 AM »
        Hello All:

        A friend of mine asked me to  see if I could get his 1960 OS Pet .099 running.  He had never been able to get it started.

        After checking the engine that appeared to never been started, I could see no reason why it would not start.  I flushed it with brake cleaner, checked the plug and mounted it on a test stand.  I primed the engine and burned off the prime.  I then attached the fuel line, primed the exhaust port, choked the engine to get fuel to the nva and flipped it.  It took three runs to get the nv adjusted to where it would hold a steady rich 4 cycle.  After that, it started on the first flip!  Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good! Lol

       I will suggest to him that this engine perhaps more break in before it is flown.  The p&c fit is great and it will hold compression till the cows come home!  All indications seem to point to this being a great little engine for some old time planes.   I still get a hoot out of flying my Cub .14 and Cub .19 powered airplanes. Lol

      "Just because she is old, doesn't mean she is slow."

                                                                                                  May your lines stay tight,


                                                                                                  Frank McCune

                                                                     

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 09:06:27 PM »
Ok now that we have that covered how about engines that are too easy to start. I have a OS 40 FSR that would start running if you looked at it funny. No joke that thing would start at times without the battery attached and often when turning it over by hand slowly to get that bump. Scary when you did not have the battery attached.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 09:36:55 PM »
Gary, my guess would be that your new found success with the TT .15 would be due to hotter glowplug and/or better battery.  ;D Steve

  Or even simpler, just got too much fuel in the crankcase with it upright. The description is the classic symptom, burps but quits richs. By the time you have enough fuel in the engine to get up in the cylinder, there's too much in the crankcase, as soon as is starts, it blurps up all the fuel, and quits.

    The solution is to disconnect the fuel line, burp it enough times to clear it out, connect the fuel line, pull through once, and flip.

    I have had trouble even with PA and RO-Jetts from time to time - they are A LOT easier to start upside down. They burp OK with the cylinder up, but that's with no fuel in the tank.
 
       Brett

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: tempermental engines
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 09:37:09 PM »
You must be a masochist , Gary ! .

If you gettem firing up first flick , consistantly , consider a twin .

FPs LAs or Even G-15s can do that .

Tho I dont know anything about early thunder tigers , I belive they mave improved over the years . S?P .

Twins can be bleedy fustrating if the injuns dont tune evenly or hol settings . Half your flights can be a dead loss .

' a bit ' of NITRO , like 15 % , gets a fat rich setting & plenty of grunt , as a rule .

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If you can mount the two on the bench , and from cold , wet / prime them , and get a ' in synch ' run , inside ten flicks total ,
Theyre Probly worth persevering with .

But if they get bothersome on the bench firing both of , as you would in a plane ; or wont run the same note / rpm's Ea Time you fire them up
setting unaltered , you could just end up flicking the noses off , or spiraling it in if a engine goes off suddenly . :( bin there , done that .

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A Oriental Wing & moments , cranks 7 in from fuse , can build around 40 Oz with two .15s , scribled to match your chosen look .Profile .
Fox 19s / 25s can be cranky - hence the Nitro . But docile engines are almost a nicesity in a multi injuned ship .
Veco 19s often one wile fire & kick back and fwd a few seconds , normally it , after a few seconds , cranks up .
About the same time it looks like its stopped - you go to flick it - as it catches , snarls -  hits your finger - gets blood on the aeroplane . :( >:(

Normally you start the outer first , so it runs out of juice first . Props tangental ( 90 deg from ea other at same compresion ) can stop the shakes .
Normally the outer vertical & the inner horizontal , on compresion . Outer injun ofset a few degrees is usually required or itll be very Light on the lines
on the outer .

We Await a video of both starting first flick simultaeneously , repeated Ten Times .  VD~ S?P :-X


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