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Author Topic: engine size vs. plane  (Read 1999 times)

Offline Chuck Schultz

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engine size vs. plane
« on: October 09, 2015, 01:46:08 PM »
It's me again! I assume that the smaller engine numbers ( .20.15,etc) indicates less power and therefore smaller, lighter planes. True or false? y1

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2015, 02:11:01 PM »
Partially true, partially not.

The "number" is the displacement of the engine.  A .25 engine has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch.  Just to confuse things, a 25 engine also has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch, because people got in the habit of leaving off the decimal point very early in the game.  Even more confusing yet, if the engine is a 25 and as big as two fists, then it's a 25cc engine.

So, assuming that you have two engines of the same basic design and different displacements, the one with the bigger number will be proportionally more powerful: an OS 46LA can fly a much bigger plane than an OS 25LA.

Is this complicated enough yet?  No?  You want it to be more confusing yet?  Good!  I can help you out!

There is a really wide range of power outputs that can be had from various different engines of the exact same displacement.  Worse, you can take one engine, and by shuffling propellers, venturis, exhaust systems and launch RPMs around, and get a wide range of power outputs (this is how speed guys entertain themselves).  An OS 40LA produces far less maximum power than an OS 40FX (or 40FSR, etc.), and produces more maximum power than an old OS MAX 40S.

Even worse, if you're talking control line stunt, you absolutely positively do not want the engine to be putting out it's maximum power all the time -- if ever.  Setting an engine up for maximum power output and stuffing it into a control line stunt plane probably isn't the absolute worst thing you could do, but it would certainly lead to abyssal pattern performance (and muscle strain in your right arm, to boot).

As an example, if there aren't top pattern pilots using 40-sized engines on pipes (OS 40FSR, I think, and RoJett 40s) then they only changed out recently -- but you can take a piped 40 out of a pattern plane, put a RoJett 78 (I think that's right) into the same plane and get equally satisfactory, if significantly different, engine runs.

If you're a beginner to this whole stunt thing, then based on my experinces my suggestion is thus:

OS 20FP for planes up to about 400 square inches.

OS 25LA for planes up to about 500 square inches.

OS 46LA for planes up to about 620 square inches.

You don't have to limit yourself to OS engines -- these are just the ones that I have personal experience with (well, plus a Tower 40, 40LA and a Magnum 36).  Enya engines come well recommended, and there are options for engines specifically designed for control line stunt ranging from slightly more than hobby shop prices (Stalker, to name one) up to super-duper professional engines (RoJett and PA).

Probably the best way to figure out what engine/plane combination to use is to ask here -- start a thread saying that you've got a specific plane in mind and ask what engine it'll work with, or start a thread saying you have a specific engine and ask what planes will work with it.  Then, because there's a pretty wide range of opinions and ability levels on the group, sort the answers by who's talking (I look at contest results and give more weight to the guys who do well in Advanced and Expert -- so, by my own criteria, you shouldn't listen to me).  And if a guy named Randy Smith or another one named Brett Buck says that a combination is good -- believe it.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 04:34:58 PM by Tim Wescott »
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Gerald Arana

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 04:31:31 PM »
Partially true, partially not.

The "number" is the displacement of the engine.  A .25 engine has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch.  Just to confuse things, a 25 engine also has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch, because people got in the habit of leaving off the decimal point very early in the game.  Even more confusing yet, if the engine is a 25 and as big as two fists, then it's a 25cc engine.

So, assuming that you have two engines of the same basic design and different displacements, the one with the bigger number will be proportionally more powerful: an OS 46LA can fly a much bigger plane than an OS 25LA.

Is this complicated enough yet?  No?  You want it to be more confusing yet?  Good!  I can help you out!

There is a really wide range of power outputs that can be had from various different engines of the exact same displacement.  Worse, you can take one engine, and by shuffling propellers, venturis, exhaust systems and launch RPMs around, and get a wide range of power outputs (this is how speed guys entertain themselves).  An OS 40LA produces far less maximum power than an OS 40FX (or 40FSR, etc.), and produces more maximum power than an old OS MAX 40S.

Even worse, if you're talking control line stunt, you absolutely positively do not want the engine to be putting out it's maximum power all the time -- if ever.  Setting an engine up for maximum power output and stuffing it into a control line stunt plane probably isn't the absolute worst thing you could do, but it would certainly lead to abyssal pattern performance (and muscle strain in your right arm, to boot).

As an example, if there aren't top pattern pilots using 40-sized engines on pipes (OS 40FSR, I think, and RoJett 40s) then they only changed out recently -- but you can take a piped 40 out of a pattern plane, put a RoJett 78 (I think that's right) into the same plane and get equally satisfactory, if significantly different, engine runs.

If you're a beginner to this whole stunt thing, then based on my experinces my suggestion is thus:

OS 20FP for planes up to about 400 square inches.

OS 25LA for planes up to about 500 square inches.

OS 46LA for planes up to about 620 square inches.

You don't have to limit yourself to OS engines -- these are just the ones that I have personal experience with (well, plus a Tower 40, 40LA and a Magnum 36).  Enya engines come well recommended, and there are options for engines specifically designed for control line stunt ranging from slightly more than hobby shop prices (Stalker, to name one) up to super-duper professional engines (RoJett and PA).

Probably the best way to figure out what engine/plane combination to use is to ask here -- start a thread saying that you've got a specific plane in mind and ask what engine it'll work with, or start a thread saying you have a specific engine and ask what planes will work with it.  Then, because there's a pretty wide range of opinions and ability levels on the group, sort the answers by who's talking (I look at contest results and give more weight to the guys who do well in Advanced and Expert -- so, by my own criteria, you shouldn't listen to me).  And if a guy named Randy Smith or another one named Brett Buck says that a combination is good -- believe it.



I love it! LL~ LL~ LL~ That even confused me! y1 But I found it very entertaining.

I'd go with Randy or Brett any day. Can't go wrong there.

Also the weight has something to do with it. I just can't remember what?

Main thing is: "Keep your lines tight". And that you can take to the bank!

Jerry

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 04:37:31 PM »
It's not a simple subject, other than mo bigger equals mo power, sometimes.

I've been a design engineer my whole life, and the lesson one eventually learns, that tends to stick the best, is that when a good idea comes your way -- steal it.  So the best way to do this whole what engine for what plane business is to copy something that already works -- if you don't do that, you should be ready to do a lot of experimenting.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 05:13:01 PM »
My favorite rule of thumb applies best to "old style" engines. That rule is that an .049 plane should weigh somewhere around 5 oz, a .15 engine will work real well on a 15 oz plane, a .40 will work splendidly on a 40 oz plane, etc. With more modern engines, you can add about 20%-30% to these nummers and still have excellent performance. Oddly, this rule of thumb (RoT!) works well on CL and FF planes.  y1 Steve
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2015, 10:45:17 PM »
I have to say, as a rookie with experience ( Iol ) I'm with Tim on this. It's not actually that easy of a question. When i buy a kit, it says for .35 size engines. Well, there ain't nobody making .35 engines any more ( well, not as much anyway). Then you figure I'll just buy an os40la and stick on this new ringmaster.... Right? No, that's crazy. You would use a modern 20 or 25. I know that now, but when i was starting i was confused. And when you say, a .40 is more powerful than a smaller engine... I say no. My k&b 3.5cc (.21) would kick my os40 to the curb in a straight hp test. So there's a lot of this hobby that is confusing and there's rarely one answer.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2015, 11:48:46 PM »
Partially true, partially not.

The "number" is the displacement of the engine.  A .25 engine has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch.  Just to confuse things, a 25 engine also has a displacement of 1/4 of a cubic inch, because people got in the habit of leaving off the decimal point very early in the game.  Even more confusing yet, if the engine is a 25 and as big as two fists, then it's a 25cc engine.

So, assuming that you have two engines of the same basic design and different displacements, the one with the bigger number will be proportionally more powerful: an OS 46LA can fly a much bigger plane than an OS 25LA.

Is this complicated enough yet?  No?  You want it to be more confusing yet?  Good!  I can help you out!

There is a really wide range of power outputs that can be had from various different engines of the exact same displacement.  Worse, you can take one engine, and by shuffling propellers, venturis, exhaust systems and launch RPMs around, and get a wide range of power outputs (this is how speed guys entertain themselves).  An OS 40LA produces far less maximum power than an OS 40FX (or 40FSR, etc.), and produces more maximum power than an old OS MAX 40S.

Even worse, if you're talking control line stunt, you absolutely positively do not want the engine to be putting out it's maximum power all the time -- if ever.  Setting an engine up for maximum power output and stuffing it into a control line stunt plane probably isn't the absolute worst thing you could do, but it would certainly lead to abyssal pattern performance (and muscle strain in your right arm, to boot).

As an example, if there aren't top pattern pilots using 40-sized engines on pipes (OS 40FSR, I think, and RoJett 40s) then they only changed out recently -- but you can take a piped 40 out of a pattern plane, put a RoJett 78 (I think that's right) into the same plane and get equally satisfactory, if significantly different, engine runs.

If you're a beginner to this whole stunt thing, then based on my experinces my suggestion is thus:

OS 20FP for planes up to about 400 square inches.

OS 25LA for planes up to about 500 square inches.

OS 46LA for planes up to about 620 square inches.

You don't have to limit yourself to OS engines -- these are just the ones that I have personal experience with (well, plus a Tower 40, 40LA and a Magnum 36).  Enya engines come well recommended, and there are options for engines specifically designed for control line stunt ranging from slightly more than hobby shop prices (Stalker, to name one) up to super-duper professional engines (RoJett and PA).

Probably the best way to figure out what engine/plane combination to use is to ask here -- start a thread saying that you've got a specific plane in mind and ask what engine it'll work with, or start a thread saying you have a specific engine and ask what planes will work with it.  Then, because there's a pretty wide range of opinions and ability levels on the group, sort the answers by who's talking (I look at contest results and give more weight to the guys who do well in Advanced and Expert -- so, by my own criteria, you shouldn't listen to me).  And if a guy named Randy Smith or another one named Brett Buck says that a combination is good -- believe it.
Holy Hanna Tim,,
LOL
great response,, but uh,, maybe if you spent some time building,,
You know,, like,, oh something more better than a twister "built to be easy to repair to garauntee I wont ever have to repair it" ,, Like the Legacy,,
 y1 y1 y1
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Chuck Schultz

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Re: engine size vs. plane
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 07:48:57 AM »
Thanks everyone. ???


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