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Author Topic: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????  (Read 3172 times)

Offline frank mccune

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Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« on: September 29, 2015, 08:18:46 AM »
     Hello All"

     I was looking for information for the causes that would make bearings to be rough running and noisy.

     I have been working with a rear bearing from a Fox.45 RC and it appears to be clean and free turning.  However, when I seat the bearing by mounting a prop on the shaft and tightening the bearing into place, the bearing gets very tight and difficult to turn.  What would cause this?  I can purchase a new bearing for a bit over ten dollars but I still want to know what causes bearing to operate in this manner.

     Oh yes, I heat the bearing and slide it onto the shaft which is cool.  The bearing appears to drop into the correct location on the crankshaft.  I then heat the case and cool the bearing to get it to slide into the case in the proper position. All appears to be well but when the prop is used to seat the bearing into the case, things go haywire.

   Any suggestions or comments?

                                                                                                                     Tia,

                                                                                                                     Frank McCune

                           

Offline BillP

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 09:17:26 AM »
It sounds like the bearing isn't seating correctly. I change bearings on my fox 45, 50 & 60s but do it differently and have no problems. I heat the case and chill the bearings, then insert the bearings into the case and use a soft piece of wood across the bearing to gently tap in evenly. Then slide the crank in. The crank slides into the bearings at ambient temp and pushes in easily without using heat or chilling either part. The only difference I see here is I don't seat the bearing with the crank.

I had an inner bearing come apart while running on a 60 and it totally distroyed the piston, liner and head...

Good luck.

bp
Bill P.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 12:14:52 AM »
Fox engines are that way, sometimes. My suspicion is that a thin shim (.010"?) behind the inner race of the front bearing might cure the problem. But if that is the problem, why wasn't it always a problem? And if it cures the problem, has the current roughness ruined the bearing?

FWIW, I had the same problem on my first ST .29rv, 50 years ago.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 07:10:11 AM »
     Hello Bill and Steve:

     Thanks for the replies.

     I thought about this issue for awhile and I am of the opinion that the bearing is not being seated deeply enough in the case to permit the outer race to take share the tension of the crankshaft.  The inner race may be being forced forward and is being distorted thus  the resistance to turning and the noise.  Perhaps I need to clean the bearing seat in an aggressive manner.  I have no way to determine when the bearing is fully seated other than a quiet bearing.  Perhaps "pounding" on the bearing with a tool that will contact both races simultaneously may properly seat the bearing.

     I was "given" this engine and the owner did not know what brand it was or who manufactured it.  I think that it is a Fox .45 RC.  When I received it, it was totally gummed with some form of yellow varnish that resisted many attempts to be removed.   I think that the parts are now clean.  I have no knowledge of how this engine functioned prior to my possession.

    I have no idea if a bearing may be seated in the case without using the crankshaft to partially align it in the case while it is being seated.  I have seen bearing alignment tools that look and function very similar to what the crankshaft is attempting to do but they support both of the races.

    Again, thanks for the help.

                                                                                                            Be well my friends,

                                                                                                            Frank McCune

                                                     

     

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 11:27:17 AM »
     Hello All:

     Problem solved! I took a dowel and "pounded" the outer race of the bearing deeper into the case.  For some reason, this stopped all of the bearing noise.  Perhaps I was correct in my assumption that the bearing was not seating to full depth. Now to the test stand! 

                                                                                                                         Be well,

                                                                                                                         Frank McCune

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 04:44:38 PM »
    Hello All

    Back from the test stand where I discovered that I had a tiger by the ail.  I put a large and heavy 10x3 plastic prop on the engine for break in purposes and lo and behold it started the first flip!  While I was running the first tank through the engine, I was able to adjust the hi and lo needle valves.  I did not lean the engine out as I do not think that it has ever been run but It was fast enough to almost cause me to soil myself!  I have never seen that much power from an engine!  The subsequent starts were all done via an electric starter as tom avoid any chance of getting hit by the prop.

    Now what to do with this engine? Lol  I would like to find a c/l venturi for it but that may be a difficult task.  What airplane would be good for stunt with such a powerful engine?

                                                                                                                    Be well,

                                                                                                                    Frank Mcune

  

Offline BillP

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 06:45:21 PM »
Yep, don't pull them in with the crank and you will probably be ok.

Glad it worked for you. 

bp
Bill P.

Offline EddyR

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 12:13:57 PM »
Frank    I am curious how you can tall how much power it has in a test stand with a 10/3 prop.

"I have never seen that much power from an engine"
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 03:57:42 PM »
         Hi Eddy:

         Good to hear from you.  Great question also that I will attempt to answer.

         Perhaps it was the high pitched exhaust sound and the pull that was being exerted on the test stand.  I had to hold it down to prevent it from being tipped over onto the ground.  I did not tach the engine but I was in shock and awe at the apparent speed that the prop was turning.  I had this impression when I first fired up one of Duke's .36 Combat Specials in the early 80's.  Perhaps I am just living in the past with my older baffled O.S., Fox and Enya engines. Lol  I guess that I should put a 10x6 prop on it and tach it to see just what I power I am getting.  It is a new engine that needs to be broken in thus the 10x3 prop.  I can calculate the h.p. if I know the rpm and the prop load.  A friend of mine teased me that the 10x3 was being spun at 16,000rpm. Lol  I will calculate the h.p. for the 10x3 and get back to you.  I think that I saw where this engine was turning a 10x6 prop at 14,000rpm.

                                                                                                              Be well my friend,

                                                                                                              Frank McCune 

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 04:44:29 PM »
      Hi Eddy et al.:

      I did a bit of "research" to determine the horsepower that this engine may be producing and this is what I found:

      10x3 prop at 16,000 rpm=.834 hp.

      10x6 prop at 14,000 rpm=1.118 hp.

      I am only speculating that this engine may be capable of producing this much hp.

       After being around stunt engines turning about 10,000 rpm., that appeared to be quite tame, this engine sounded like a beast!  Perhaps it is all in the ear of the beholder! Lol

                                                                                                                                 Have a nice day,

                                                                                                                                 Frank McCune

Offline EddyR

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2015, 08:05:48 PM »
Frank I was just teasing you. I had a few of that motor many years ago and they are very powerful. I didn't know to run low pitch props on them back then and it was hard to keep the speed down. Way more power than my ST/46 motors at that time. A friend had one in a Fierce Arrow and it was fast.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline BillP

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 05:21:01 PM »
My bench running notes from 20+ yrs ago show it tached 13.5k rpm with a 10x6W wood Rev Up Pro prop.  Fox Gold Star fuel 5% x 20% all castor. 30' above sea level. Temp 90F & humidity 95%.  This is the early 45bb cl with small exhaust.   
 
Bill P.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2015, 08:21:10 AM »
     Hi BillP:

     Humidity at 95% and temp 90 deg. and you are running an engine? You sir are a real MAN! Lol

      Thanks for the reply.

                                                                                                                All of the best,

                                                                                                                Frank McCune

Offline BillP

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Re: Causes of a noisy rough running bearing????
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2015, 10:05:24 AM »
I've been here 66 yrs so the heat doesn't bother me like those folks who move here from cooler/drier climes...but they usually adjust after a couple yrs too. 
Bill P.


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