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Author Topic: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler  (Read 1200 times)

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« on: October 17, 2018, 08:07:57 PM »
Hello
Just made a tube muffler for my Super Cyclone that I want to put on a Veco Chief to cut the noise a little.
The alloy tube is 0.8" (19mm) with a careful slot cut to fit the exhaust stack and wired onto the engine . It has a close fitting dowel JB weld/glued in one end and a washer pressed in the other for the exit and gaps are sealed with JB weld (or silicone).
Another club member (John Carrodus) has used similar tube mufflers on a lot of his engines very successfully.

Regards Gerald  :)
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 11:44:11 AM »
Probably does a better job than my modified tongue muffler, but mine looks cool.
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Jim Kraft

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 04:27:59 AM »
Hi Jim
That tongue muffler does look good!
Used a tongue muffler on the Atwood Champion in my Viking , it is clean and light and works well .
My tube muffler should probably have steel wool in the tube like the old Mart-Lee tube mufflers .
I have used the DuBro Universal Stack mufflers blanked off at the end with holes drilled on the side, works well on motors that need a strap on muffler.
Brodak now has a strap on tongue muffler for the Fox 59   #^

Regards Gerald
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 07:04:47 AM »
Do Fox 59's need a muffler? All my engines are way quieter than they use to be. But that may be because my ear doctor says I am a sound proof booth. One thing I have found on my old time free flight planes, is to run a 14x6 or larger prop to keep the rpm's down. I have gone from a 12x6 to a 14x6 and had guys ask me if I put a muffler on.

All of my sparkers on gasoline are loud. The side port Ohlsson's being the quietest. The Super Cyclones make great control line engines. They are of conventional layout, with the mounts 1/2" below the needle, light weight, and very easy handling and running. They start easy hot or cold. I do remove the ball thrust bearing in mine and replace with a bushing as those thin races usually come apart over time and wipe out the cylinder when they do.

I run a 12x8 on mine on my Boxcar Chief, and it pulls really well. For a light weight spark engine they are my favorite. For larger planes that can handle the extra weight, I usually go to Anderson Spirfires or Orwicks. Those work well with 13x6 props on most planes.
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Jim Kraft

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 05:26:20 AM »
Hi Jim
My ears are not great anymore (Tinnitus from wood chopping when young) so a Fox 59 is not loud to me anymore, but most sites have muffler laws here so I am always coming up with mufflers for old engines.
I prefer the lower rev sound too especially when you compare say a 35 size vintage combat model  to a 1/2A or current F2D combat model .
Can you please explain what material you make the Super Cyclone thrust washers from and I presume you have them turned up to replicate the ball race size
Thanks for your advice , it is good to know Super Cyclones work well for C/L
Regards Gerald
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 08:36:44 AM »
Hi Gerald. Anything will work as long as it fits the shaft. I have made some out of Phosphor bronze, and I have one or two with just plain brass washers cut to size, and use one of the original races to get a .010 or so fore and aft in the crank. Not critical, but you do not want it tight. I can tell no difference in performance.

I do the same on all engines that use those thrust ball bearings. Some Ohlsson's, and Atwood Super Champions. My thinking is that someone came up with the idea of a selling feature that their engine had ball thrust bearings, and others had to follow to stay competitive, even though they have no advantage. And they sure can ruin an otherwise good engine. One of my friends went through two Super Cyclones that the bearing came apart and wiped out the cylinders and pistons on both.

The two thin races that the balls run in are so thin that they eventually wear a groove and then they come apart with bad results. I had one of my own wipe out the cylinder and piston. Never had a problem with a spacer in place of the bearing.

When Woody Bartelt was still alive, he offered bronze bushings that were the same space as the complete thrust bearing. I think his business, Aero Electric, is no more.
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Jim Kraft

Offline Ara Dedekian

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 12:44:37 PM »
Quote from: Jim Kraft on October 20, 2018, 07:04:47 AM

I do remove the ball thrust bearing in mine and replace with a bushing as those thin races usually come apart over time and wipe out the cylinder when they do.

       Jim

         Thanks for sharing that with us. I hope to install a Super Cyclone in my Taurus for next season. I'll make up washers to replace the thrust bearings.

       Ara
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 06:42:34 PM »
You will love the Taurus. On low wind days it will fly so slow you can just guide it through the maneuvers as though you are writing with it in the sky.
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Jim Kraft

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2018, 07:16:47 PM »
Hi Jim

Thanks for all the information ,should help save some old engines expiring prematurely.
I really like your Tarus vintage stunter, very inspiring!
Regards Gerald
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Offline Dave Moritz

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 10:01:33 AM »
Jim:

I'd like to see your comments on a future project I've in mind, if you'd be so kind.

I've got my dad's Ohlsson .60 (circa 1941 with oval exhaust), and it's in very good condition. Would like to fly it as a sparker on a Taurus or something like it. Would consider modifications to the motor that wouldn't permanently alter it. So far, the mods in mind include swapping out the NVA with an S/T version, and the thrust bearing change suggested above. Perhaps some kind of muffler if needed, but that wouldn't be easy considering the exhaust stack shape. Will probably run Coleman fuel with castor.

That Taurus is a nifty looking ship! Given the sparker you've got mounted on it, what kind of maneuvers can you do?

Thanks a bunch.

Dave Mo....
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It’s a very strange world we live in, Master Jack.” (4 Jacks and a Jill)

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 01:03:11 PM »
Hi Dave. As to the Ohlsson side port, I can not say as I have never run one in stunt. I am not sure how to set the tank height as the needle spray bar is so far above the mounts. Actually, if they would work they are about the quietest sparkers. I have one I run on my Playboy Sr, old timer, and it works great on there and is not as loud as the others.

The Taurus  is a large airplane. 68 inch span and 850 square inches. It will fly all the the old time pattern with ease. It fly's better than I do because it won the ignition event at Tucson 3 years in a row. All done with an Anderson Spitfire lapped 60. The first year I flew it on 67 foot lines, eye to eye. After that it was flown on 65' lines. It has been flown on ringed Spitfire 65's, Atwood Super Champions, Super Cyclones, and right now has an Orwick in it which is gobs of power. Oh, I forgot. It started life with a Fox 59 glow. It flew well with that, but not as good as the spark engines. The day I put the Spitfire on and flew the first flight, the grin on my face told the whole strory. It was love at first flight.

The only down side to spark is the extra weight from batteries and coil, but those can become negligable with the new battery technology which I have not gone to. I am using the Eneloop batteries as they work so well for me.

The other thing is noise. They just run better unmuffled. I also block the boost port holes on the ones that have them as they give a much steadier run for stunt. I use tank tin and a plastic tie to cover the holes on Spitfires, and gasket material with a tie on the Orwicks, and Cyclones.

Maybe someone else on here has flown a side port Ohlsson in stunt.

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Jim Kraft

Offline Dave Moritz

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Re: Super Cyclone Tube Muffler
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 07:40:23 PM »
Ah yes, that Taurus might be a bit much for the Ohlsson. I once asked Woody Bartelt about a muffler for it; he didn't think much of the idea either.

If I can find the plans, a Girard Hornet could just be the ticket for the .60. An illustration I saw sometime ago showed the motor in an inverted mount with a standard fuel tank.

Thanks for your response!

Dave Mo...
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It’s a very strange world we live in, Master Jack.” (4 Jacks and a Jill)

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