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Author Topic: FP40 $92 and  (Read 1613 times)

Offline Dennis Moritz

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FP40 $92 and
« on: April 21, 2007, 05:03:51 AM »
uh oh, word got out. Current ebay bid (4 hours to go) for a new stunt OS FP40. Guess that one didn't sneak in under the radar. Interesting that many on the udder forum who malign these engines (we luv'em here in Philly) used them in competition during the 80s and90s. Reading back in the AMA archive, the FP40 is commonly mentioned as a power plant for competition stunt. The difference between the CL Stunt FP40 and the comparatively common RC version are extra head gaskets, a venturi and a needle valve. Same timing. So, these engines are still out there at a reasonable price.

Offline brucefinley

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2007, 06:26:04 AM »
It sure helps the bidding when the seller presents a quality photo of the product.  Also the item is new in box with all the extras.  All that is needed are rabid bidders with "da fever" who can't control themselves!

Bruce

Offline Bill Little

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2007, 11:22:27 AM »
Hi Dennis,

Everyone who was running the FP 40 in competition back in the early '90s that I knew was running retimed FPs.......... the FP was maybe the easiest engnie to retime and still have a lot of power.

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2007, 11:30:40 AM »
Wow!, you guys don't need to hear my FP story, lets just say I wouldn't spend $10.00 on one unless some guy was standing behind me willing to pay me 20  ;D

Offline Bill Little

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2007, 08:52:49 PM »
Wow!, you guys don't need to hear my FP story, lets just say I wouldn't spend $10.00 on one unless some guy was standing behind me willing to pay me 20  ;D

Hi Bob,

If you still have a FP 40, I'll give you $10 for it and even throw in shipping........ what a deal for you! ;D

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2007, 10:35:54 PM »
Model Aviation, August 1987, Ted Fancher's article about his (now famous) modified Twister.
quote: "I used a Merco 35 supplied by Tom Dixon and a box stock FP40."

The FP40 on ebay went for $102.51.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2007, 11:39:41 PM »
Model Aviation, August 1987, Ted Fancher's article about his (now famous) modified Twister.
quote: "I used a Merco 35 supplied by Tom Dixon and a box stock FP40."

The FP40 on ebay went for $102.51.

And your point is????  Still doesn't make my statement any less true.  Most of the guys I knew flying incompetition were using retimed FP 40s.  That is fact, and there's nothing you can do to change it.  You don't have a very good way with words sometimes Dennis.... maybe it's because I ain't from Philly.
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2007, 03:39:32 AM »
Bill,

Thought you'd get the point. (Actually sounds like you did.) Obviously a box stock FP40 worked then (and now) as a stunt engine. The people I know still use it successfully as a competition stunt engine at least through Advanced. Also in Expert profile. Including many wins at local meets and Brodak. These engines have not been retimed. From the drama of your response, I conclude that what I wrote and the way I wrote it made an effective point.

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 04:38:23 AM »
Years ago I ran into a guy who owned a BMW motorcycle. Brand spanking new. He ran down for me its handling, power characteristics, usefulness as a touring bike. Very convincing rap. Thought he was a genuine knowledgeable enthusiast. At that time I had toured America on a bike just like his. Took many runs up to Maine and Nova Scotia and down south. Went coast to coast. In passing I asked how him how fast he drove when he toured. It was the 70s, speed limit at that time was 70 miles an hour. He said, well he never drove the bike faster than 65 or 70. I asked him how long had he been driving the bike. He said three weeks. Well, Bill, I had to think that one over. Here was a guy who sounded like he knew what he was talking about, but he didn't. He was repeating what he read and heard.

This happens in our hobby all the time. Discussions about FP40s (and Foxes) sometimes echo my experience with that guy. People repeating what they have heard, rather than finding things out for themselves or checking with people who made something work. Not true of you. Obviously, you have competed for a long time and know many who have. Where you were flying and competing competitors modified the engines. In my club we fly FP40s and Foxes stock for sport and in competition.

Bob Reeves obviously had a problem with an FP40. He's not alone. The engine has to be run within certain parameters to work as a stunt engine. (This is true for almost any stunt engine, I believe.) In my club we get them to work without internal modifications, except for the addition of extra head gaskets. When set up correctly and tuned to the plane on which they fly, we've found them powerful and effective as sport and competition engines. Same with Foxes. We run them as they come from the factory. They often need to be broken in carefully, some editions (such as the 40th anniversary) might need some hand lapping. We generally use no special order parts. This approach works for us.

 

Offline Bill Little

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2007, 07:27:46 AM »
Hi Dennis,

I am glad I can understand what you're saying now.  The OS 40 FP will work with out retiming, that I do know.  You do have to know what to do with it  and the guys in your area know what "that" is.  I have never tried to run one stock, no need to I guess.  The 20FP and 25FP are both engines that I use at times, and they do not suffer through any "cutting". 


Today, I do not have much time for getting out and working on things so I have gone to engines that work out of the box.  A good 40FP is a really stout engine, though!

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Leester

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 08:58:20 AM »
Since your talking 40FP's will the head gasket from a Tower 40 work on a 40FP ? A Gasket set for the Tower is 1.89 for the FP it's 3.89.
Leester
ama 830538

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 11:30:33 AM »
<snip>

Bob Reeves obviously had a problem with an FP40. He's not alone.

Sure wished I knew you 7 years ago, sounds like you could have saved me allot of aggravation and money. 

Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2007, 02:47:09 PM »
Don't know about you guys, but so far I've gotten 15 great years out of my Randy Smith tuned FP .40, and still going! Short of my Aero Tigers it's still the best $$$ I've ever spent...

When I was competing with it, half the folks that heard it run thought it was on the pipe!

Ward-O
I hate spelling errors, you mess up 2 letters and you are urined!

Don't hesitate to ask dumb questions.
They are easier to handle than dumb mistakes!  Ward-O AMA 6022

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: FP40 $92 and
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2007, 08:58:25 PM »
The Tower gasket works. I use them. But they're thinner. Something like .007 instead of .0012. Half the price and a little more than half the thickness. Often I try a thin one first, if the engine is still breaking harsh, might flip a thick one in also or another thin one. The difference allows for finer tuning. Definitely a plus. I need to get into cutting up aluminum cans or legit metal gasket material. $8 or so for 2 OS gaskets way too much. There must be a cheaper source for these items. Maybe Randy or Richard? I find that as long as I have a hot plug (we've been using Enya #3s a lot) the engine will stay lit, even when compression is on the low side.

There are lots of factors. Often a click in either direction will tune the engine into a sweet spot. Eventually, you develop a feel for this. Problem is that the setting on the ground may not resemble the setting in the air. I had a twister that would take off on the lean side and settle back into a nice fat two stroke once the prop unloaded. My Primary Force stays pretty much as set when taking off. Just started working with an ARF Cardinal... Almost. Not quite right. But it leans out some in the air. The PF likes uniflo some planes do not. I think the problem is engine vibration that sets off bad harmonics in certain ranges causing foaming in the tank. Each plane is a law unto itself. Hit the bad spot and fuel foams big time, making for a run run runaway. Profiles are usually worse than full bodies. Also, it's important to have the engine warm to operating temperature before making a final needle setting. Usually when the setting is found the engine will stay in that zone and you're set. Maybe varying some for cold weather and hot weather. Probably barometric pressure is another factor. Part of getting to know the engine. True for serious big buck engines as well. A friend in our club, a top 20 flier, told me he turns the needle on his PA61 a full half turn between morning and late afternoon. Compensating for temperature. Then of course there are issues of props. His PA is one sweet engine by the way. Putting in four heavy duty stunt seasons. Very impressive.

My recent experience with an ARF Cardinal is I think revealing. This is the first time I've used a clunk tank on a profile. First couple of flights definitely bad runaway with the LA46. Now this is a reputed well behaved engine, nevertheless it exhibited the classic bad runaway syndrome. Fat and happy 2 stroke (may have even been a fourstroke- sure pumped lots of oil out) but as soon as it broke lean, jet power. Dan Banjok looked it over and said it's a vibration problem. Sure enough when the engine broke lean on the ground (when we pointed the nose up) the fuel in the tank went nuts, it looked like fast boiling water. We could see this through clear plastic tank. The engine went very lean. We put a bit of armoral in the fuel. We cinched up on the engine bolts up. Laid in row on row of rubber bands on the tank. All this helped some. Getting there. I'm going to grind into the balsa cheek cowl where the bolts exit soon as I get a chance. Make sure the washers and nuts are laying up against hardwood. Also I'll make a brass strap to further secure the tank. (This has worked on some of our ARFs, helping to eliminate vibration problems. We find that tanks like a very solid mounting.) I have some new metal uniflo tanks from RSM, will probably try one of these. Also have some vibration absorbing material to lay under the tank. Then there is the genuine 1/8" steel mounting pads, Dan used to tame the truly remarkable vibrations of his Foxberg Fox. It turns a genuine 14,000 rpm pushing a 9x6. Grab the wing on the Cosmic Wind, the vibes actually sting. But he's getting the plane to run consistent and fast.

In conclusion I think lots of runaway problems can be traced to bad harmonic vibrations set up as an interaction between plane, engine and tank. Bad vibes. We need to work on that. Often it's not the engine alone, it's the system.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 04:56:16 AM by Dennis Moritz »


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