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Author Topic: ST46 vs. OS46LA  (Read 1162 times)

Offline Warren Wagner

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ST46 vs. OS46LA
« on: November 27, 2009, 01:05:29 PM »
Hi gang,

Myself, and other guys that I fly with, have excellent runs with the OS46LA.  It's a superb running engine, and a real bargain  in today's engine market..  The ST46 was "king of the hill" for decades, however I missed out on having flown the ST46, so I can't really compare the power.

Can anyone, that has had experience running both of these engines, compare the approximate power output of these two ?

TIA

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

   (Ed Ruane....you certainly have run the ST46 enough to have a good basis for comparison.   Have you flown the OS?)

 
Warren Wagner
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: ST46 vs. OS46LA
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2009, 01:56:28 PM »
The ST46 was "king of the hill" for decades, however I missed out on having flown the ST46, so I can't really compare the power.

    But those decades were >30 years ago, and people were always looking for replacements. I have only seen others run la46s, but the reliability seems to be an order of magnitude better. I was one of the last holdouts with the ST but based on what I have seen I would have dropped it like a hot potato if there was something as bulletproof as the LA.

   One thing that makes it hard to compare them power-wise is that over the years the expectations for power-weight ratio have gone up dramatically. People started out with 720 square inch monsters, and the last and best of the breed was down to ~610 square inches. Now people routinely put LA46s on airplanes we used to fly with Foxes.

     Brett
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 05:49:32 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline proparc

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Re: ST46 vs. OS46LA
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 05:00:33 PM »

The ST46 was "king of the hill" for decades, however I missed out on having flown the ST46.
Warren Wagner
 

Consider yourself DEEPLY traumatized and SEVERELY deprived!!! :'(
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: ST46 vs. OS46LA
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 12:01:03 AM »
40 years ago I bought an ST46. I ran it some sport flying and I always liked it. I got married and the kids grew up and moved out and I found the ST46 in a drawer in the garage. I flushed it out and fired her up and started building and flying again. Slowly I got into competition using the ST46. I had a 56 in. wing span profile and I kind of had a love hate relationship with the ST46. Some days it was pretty good and some days it was just OK. Then one day I read a post by Brett Buck on how he recommended to set up a ST46. I followed his simple instructions and dang it ran like a new motor and had more power and my scores improved. I had that profile for 7 years and I loved it from then on...........until I piled it up in rough weather. Then I had a break in flying for a couple of years or more and somehow I ended up with a LA46. I was prepaired to really hate this motor. I was always proud to say I was flying a ST46 and now I was going to have to say I was flying a RC motor. It was a stupid bushing motor and the bushing is not even full length, puke, and it was painted blue to boot. OH, and the plastic back plate was and still is stupid. Probably a bean counter decision. I have been flying the LA46 for a couple of years with the standard upgrades and slowly it grew on me and now I really like it, not better, but I like it. I think it makes similar power to the ST46 I setup per Brett. The only real difference between them is the props you use to get the same performance. The stock LA46 will spank the stock ST46. But with Bretts setup there both really close. Back when the ST46 was real popular the really good pilots were pouring the nitro to the ST46 to make it perform. The LA46 will make you happy with 5% or 10%. Brett has more experience with the ST46 than most pilots and as a competition engine it was dependable as long as the rings held up with a good seal (compression). The LA46 has no rings so it remains consistant. I love them both and can't think of a bad thing to say about either. Today if you bought a "new stock ST46" and dropped it into a large stunter you would probably be disapointed compared to the LA46. It goes without saying that props and venturi size greatly affect the performance of both so It's hard to compare one mans motor with another's.......I love them both.......IMHO
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 03:31:00 PM by Greg L Bahrman »
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: ST46 vs. OS46LA
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 01:19:07 PM »
Back when the ST46 was real popular the really good pilots were pouring the nitro to the ST46 to make it perform.

   At the end, yes. For most of its life people were running them on Fox Superfuel or something similar. It was only after we saw a few examples of Fox 35s on 15% (with dramatically increased power) that very many tried 15 and 20 in the ST. That started in the VSC era (although I am sure they knew about it in the good old days of the Fox, too) which is pretty late in the game. The very last gasp of the ST was the 91 Team Trials with David coming in 6th with an ST on 15% Cool power with a bunch of oil added to it. That's a very remarkable achievement up against the VFs and OPS 40s. But even David couldn't overcome the performance deficit.

   Oh, for the good old days where you whipped for a lap and a half before the hourglass, swooped into the first corner as soft as you could, got up on tiptoes with your hand as far up as you could get it, then yank it down to your shoulder for the second corner, and then down to your knees for the third corner. Or start the overheads the same way, and end up with your hand almost on the ground by the end. So nostalgic it brings a tear to my eye. But not in a good way.

 One thing I do know - the last thing in the world it needs it *detuning*! We never had a problem with too much power, that's for sure. That's why even in the late 70's almost everybody was looking for a replacement, and the airplanes got progressively smaller until the bitter end in ~1990. Also led to the New Jersey "Schneurle Wars", then the stop-gap of the ST60 until 88 or so when piped engines came along. Mostly just to get the same performance you got with an ST46 on those rare occasions that it ran perfectly. If nothing else the LA has a slug-piston and is likely to run the same way every time. Even if it didn't have more power, or at least more effective power (since you run much less pitch than you could ever get away with on the ST), that alone would make it a no-brainer as far as choosing. You can always make the airplane smaller if you want more performance, and with the high-rev/low-pitch you have much more leeway on the airplane design. With the ST and similar engines the airplane size was much more critical, and as you got smaller, the performance went up but getting a perfect engine run got even more critical, because a little off either way and the system performance fell off dramatically. That's why my cohorts and I never went to the 60- the optimum airplane was bigger than we felt comfortable with and putting it in a 46-sized plane was clearly demanding that you got it *perfect* every time.

   Thanks for the nice comments on the ST setup instructions (which, to summarize, were leave it stock, find a good ring, and use a .173 venturi and 10% 50/50 and a cleaned up Rev-Up 12-6 - and the only important bit being the ring). But I would hasten to point out that this was an accumulation of knowledge that others had figured out over the 15-20 years it was being used seriously for competition. My sole contribution was the second o-ring below the annular manifold on the venturi, but I am not sure how much of an improvement that was. Otherwise I was just the editor/"fact checker" for the information, and posted it about 20 years later when someone invented the internet.


     Brett


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