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Author Topic: b-25 in the ground  (Read 837 times)

Offline roger

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b-25 in the ground
« on: August 05, 2008, 07:33:24 PM »
 
SH^ well it had to happen my 52" b-25 hit the the ground...... one engine quit on about my 10 or 12th lap  she came in on me , lines got slack, sure sounded pretty though. any body help me out on flyen twins?

roger ??? ???

Willis Swindell

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 08:35:51 AM »
Voice of experience, when one engine cuts fly level until you run out of fuel no mater which way you are going.
Willis

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 10:02:21 AM »
Hi Roger,
Hope she is repairable.
Twin engined models are just like twin engined real airplanes. They have a speed at which below they can no longer  maintain directional control.

In the real airplane it is called VMC. In the older WWII airplanes it was called "takeoff safety speed". In the B-25, that I flew in airshows, it is 145 mph. The airplane breaks ground on take off at 90 mph. So for a period of time it is in a vulnerable position, this is called the "critical area". During this climb in the "critical area", a shallow climb angle is used to accelerate as quickly as possible to 145 mph, and during this period the gear is raised and both pilots check over their shoulder to look at the engine cowls and vertical fin for oil, a great indicator for impending failure.

If the engine fails below 145 mph, with the rudder pushed all the way to the stops, and the wings rolled to the perfect bank into the running engine, the airplane will still turn and roll into the failed engine and eventually the nose will drop. The airplane is out of control. The only way to save ones self in this condition is to reduce power on the running engine, usually to idle, and prepare to land, wings level, straight ahead. To continue with the power up on the good engine below VMC, close to the ground, will be an impact with terra firma in an out of control state. Usually it is very bad.

Now for a twin engined C/L model, we have some options after an engine failure too. We have a model that has a VMC too, but it usually is accelerated past very quickly. The airplane turns at us a little bit more than a single engine job on take off because of torque from the two engines, but because of the quick acceleration, no sweat. Take a step back and all is well.

When we have an outboard engine quit on the twin, the inboard engine is producing thrust from the inboard side of the model's vertical axis and trying to fly it against the control lines and away from the pilot. That is good, a little help from our engine. In this case, one can fly it pretty well. It slows down, and if you'll notice, you can fly it up higher than your head, maybe up to a little higher circle elevation, like eight feet, but it is very thrust critical. But it has line tension so we feel safe.

Now, if the inboard engine quits, the model will have the opposite reaction, it will try to turn in towards the pilot, making the lines slack, while slowing down and becoming thrust critical. One must immediately step back and maintain line tension.

How do we save it? By walking in a tight backwards circle and keeping a constant tension on the lines. Whipping, or in racing, towing, is something that used to be taught to everyone , but nowadys I see a lot of guys aren't really up on it. Essentially, you are walking away from the model, producing line tension in a circle just like the model is flying in. This produces energy to the model, keeping the lines tight and providing control effectiveness.

Remember when the model would barely fly higher than your head with the outboard engine stopped? Well, now is a good time to fly nice and low. Lower than your head, and maybe it won't even stay airborne, depending on the model.

Try these things, and I hope this stuff helps you give it a go again. I love to see twins and scale models even more.

Chris... 

Online James Lee

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 07:57:15 PM »
Or, one can be mucho macho and continue inside loops with the new Trixter twin,,   nooo problem...    so lets continue with the outside rounds and nooo problem tilll we transition from the inside to the inverted and 'Houston, we have a problem'....   Well, actually by that time it was get the brooms....!!! ~^ ~^ Some very interesting pictures of it in rather odd positions as it rekitted itself....
 
Chris knows his practical application of Mother Natures Laws, which thou shalt not break, lest thee become broken...    H^^ H^^
Later
Jim

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 08:48:51 PM »
And there we stood, with our hats over our hearts.
Jim Kraft

Offline John Miller

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 07:07:19 AM »
In consideration of the forces as chronicled by Chris, I've always added 2 to 3 degrees of out thrust to the outboard engine only. It helps a lot, though not always needed as Gordan Delaney, flying the same design, uses no out thrust in any of his many twins.

Lightly built twins, with good power will usually handle either engine out reasonably, if you don't try to continue with the stunts, or fly up excessivly high.

Heavier, or underpowered twins can be a handful when the inboard engine quits.
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 12:03:13 AM »
 
SH^ well it had to happen my 52" b-25 hit the the ground...... one engine quit on about my 10 or 12th lap  she came in on me , lines got slack, sure sounded pretty though. any body help me out on flyen twins?

roger ??? ???


Hi Roger,
Ya know I just realized this is in engine set-up's and I'll bet you were thinkin' you were gonna get some engine help! Is that right?
John and some of the other twin flyers here are much more up on it than I am, mine has only 10 flights. There is a list of helpful hints about getting twin's engines to run together and quit in order from outboard and then in inboard. The stunters can even get them to quit together.
When you check back in, John Miller I bet can give you a good list of do's and don'ts.
Good flying,
Chris...
Here are some pics of my Tigercat, Roger.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: b-25 in the ground
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 07:41:12 AM »
Roger,  you don't state if this was first flight on the plane on not.  I take it, it was.  The main thing is having engines that are reliable.  You don't state which engines are used.  The better of the two engines should be on the inboard side(closer to you).   As John stated, a little offset on the outboard is better.  Nothing like the sound of a twin when both engines are running, but, remember harmonics can some times cause engines to run different in the air.  I have had to richen one or the other engine after seeing how they ran in the air.  It takes patience and practice to get it right.  Hope you get the B-25 flying again.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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