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Author Topic: Raising intake ports  (Read 3449 times)

Offline Bootlegger

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Raising intake ports
« on: September 04, 2017, 10:14:44 AM »

  What does raising the intake ports actually do to the engine, how does it help/ hurt?  Thanks a lot...
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Offline phil c

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 11:46:07 AM »
Why are you wanting to change the bypass timing(on the sleeve), or are you talking about the shaft port?

Anyway, going from memory here, stunt engines(fox stunt)  typically run around 135deg total exhaust duration, the bypass port about 120deg.  Depending on when they were made there is a lot of difference between Fox 35"s.

The modern Schneurle ported stunt engines are higher in the sleeve, say around 145deg exhaust and 135-140 duration on the bypasses and run at a bit higher rpm.

Basically, the wider the port timings and the larger the ports, including the shaft timing, the more horsepower.  Stunt motors use more conservative numbers in order to get more torque at lower rpms and turn larger props.  The engine builders either have numbers they use from experience, or make several test setups on a mule engine.  Bore/stroke ratio, rod length, and bypass shapes all have an effect too.
phil Cartier

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 12:41:14 PM »

  Phil, it is the Webra 32 speed engine and I am trying to get a better stunt, or stunt run period, so that is the reason for the raised ports..
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 12:56:46 PM »
  Phil, it is the Webra 32 speed engine and I am trying to get a better stunt, or stunt run period, so that is the reason for the raised ports..

    What did it do wrong when you flew it?  What prop/venturi/fuel did you use?

   Brett

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 02:46:49 PM »

  Brett,  I am in the process of running it in, and it runs a lot than I want it too, as to the fuel and prop, it has been so long that I don't remember, so I am seeking that info now.
 I think that it was 5% nitro, 22% oil half and half, with a Thunderbolt idle bar plug, I seem to remember that it had two or three runs on it when I oiled it and put it up for other things that I needed to do..
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 06:40:39 PM »
... and it runs a lot than I want it too ...

Just one missing word, but -- ouch!
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 09:10:05 PM »
If you had a tooned pipe SPEED engine , youd raise the EXHAUST to increase the BLOWDOWN . ???



So THIS is what BLOWDOWN is . ( if He's got it right ) .



Cause He wants the NEGATIVE PRESSURE WAVE to Ram Charge the Cylinder , Which'll only happen if the Cylinders Shut , or it'd Blow Down the Trasfer Passage too . . .  :o

But WE dont want to rev the Snot out of it , Ve Vant TOURQUE ! So George Aldrich said use 15 Degrees oor Less , Blowdown . To get the sucker to SWITCH 4-2-4 .



Which is the differance between B & C there , Rotationally tho .

The Higher the port top , the longer the ' period '  of course the longer the ' going around ' of the crankshaft ( Degrees ) for high speed snotters ,
with cranks closing around 60 degrees .

Where if ya wanna runin at say 8000 odd , about 45 crank closing, stops the intake eatlier , so ' it ' dosnt keep on going ' up there ' in rpms either .

Tho a lotta injuns , like the ST 46 , close lateish at 50+ degrees , so the crank timing dosnt seem as critical ,
Though some enormous cranks have enormous intake cut outs - so can flow twice as much as one half the size , in the same time . :o

EARLY Schnules , like the HP 40 , And Maybe your SPEED Webra ?? ( if its the round finned one ) Dont Have Huge Crank Passages ,
Or Huge TRANSFER PASSAGES or Huge Intake Cut Outs in the Sleeve , so there . :-X

So one sticks a 360 degree Protactor , or if decadent , a Timing Disc , on the crank ( where the prop goes ) pulls the head off , sticks a poiter to a lug ,
turns things , uses a flashlite , and writes down when it all shuts and opens .



Then you can use tecnical terms like

I.O. = Inlet Opens .
I.C. = Inlet Closes

E.O. = Exhaust Opens
E.C. Exhaust Cl;oses

These are usually the same , on our two strokes , bar some clever sods offset the crank or cylider sideways .Say on the Fox 35 , Then They ARNT . The Same . Tho Similar .

Also A T D C = After Top Dead Center
A B D C = After Bottom Dead Centre

Which is where the sleeve ports is open . Ea Side of B D C , so Ea Side Added ( say 70 ) = Twice As Much ( say 140 ) ( Degrees , a fairly usefull Exhaust Period
- 15 twice gives 110 MAXIMUM on the Trans , or it wont 4-2-4 , it wont back off once it got up , in rpms . So I suppose it acts like a choke. The Blowdown .

Either thats a revelation or theres some other explanation .

Actually 130 Exhaust Duration is pretty good , the Early HP 40s go down there with the liner dropped  about 30 thou . And 110 Inlet .

Anything over about 145 Exhaust , which'd mean minimum 115 Inlet ( on the sleeve ) preferably 10 blowdown so 125 . ( Maybe less blowdown as the RPM range is Raised ??)
isthe dreaded ?? 4 in pitch range , in the So Called SCHNEURLE engines .

The Sleeve Timing for a BAFFLED PISTON ENGINE is wilder than oon a Flat Top Piston - Multi Port . Perhaps . :-\

ANYWAY , Raiseing the TOP of the TRANSFER PORT , ( un piped ) is to REDUCE THE BLOWDOWN . ( Dropping the Sleeve is to Narrow the Timing to Reduce the RPMS at Maximum effective TOURQUE ,
So its ' on the Hump ' in the power band , the ' sweet spot '  where its happiest sitting .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 09:22:40 PM »


Pesumeably a STUNT Tuned Pipe gets acting like a Exhaust Brake , Downhill - on a tuned pipe set up , and things are altogeter differant . Or come at otherways ??

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 09:05:56 AM »

  Guy's I got to run the engine this A M, and was very pleasantly surprised as to how well it ran. I ran it on 5% n 16 Syn, 6% Castor, at 10,000R P M it stayed very steady, oh, I ran an A P C 10.5x4.5 on it.
 
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Offline phil c

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 04:12:32 PM »
  Guy's I got to run the engine this A M, and was very pleasantly surprised as to how well it ran. I ran it on 5% n 16 Syn, 6% Castor, at 10,000R P M it stayed very steady, oh, I ran an A P C 10.5x4.5 on it.
 

That, Bootlegger, was the missing info.  If it will turn that prop at 10,000 and not go into a 2 stroke unless you maneuver, it should make a pretty decent stunt engine.  You'll probably have to tune further using fuel, glow plug, venturi size, and maybe the prop, depending on what the plane likes.  10.5/4.5 prop may be a bit much for a 32, especially if the plane is getting over 600 squares  and 50oz.
phil Cartier

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 05:40:13 PM »

So am I to understand that I might be better off running something like a 10x4 prop instead of a 10.5 diameter prop?  I sure don't want to do harm to this engine, and I haven't decieded as to what model I am going to build.

  Guy's thanks for all the suggestions/advice...
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Gil Causey
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Offline phil c

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2017, 08:13:19 PM »
So am I to understand that I might be better off running something like a 10x4 prop instead of a 10.5 diameter prop?  I sure don't want to do harm to this engine, and I haven't decieded as to what model I am going to build.

  Guy's thanks for all the suggestions/advice...

You won't hurt the engine by running an inch or so smaller prop for the first few flights.  According to Webra the SPEED 32 used an ABN piston and liner.  The usual procedure it to run it on the rich side, but not 4 cycling, during the break in.  It will likely run a bit rough at first.  When it smooths out after 3-4 runs run it a bit leaner.  ABN/ABC motors don't really need much, if any castor, but at least 20% synthetic oil.  Castor will start building up on the piston if the motor gets any slightly too lean runs.  The only fix is to soak it in kerosene or other solvent to get the castor off.  Any buildup will make the motor run hot and get very difficult to get a consistent setting.

Once it's broken in you'll have to experiment with different props, venturi size, fuel %nitro, and glow plugs.  The SPEED series were all aimed at high performance RC like most Schneurle ported RC engines.  They won't usually do a 8500-9000rpm 4-2 break run.  They will do a rich 2cycle run, or sometimes a fast 4cycle 4-2 run with the right size and pitch prop.

You might PM Bob Hunt.  I think he experimented quite a bit with the Webra 32 engine.
phil Cartier

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Raising intake ports
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 09:05:36 AM »

 Phil and motor man, I raised the intake ports .020" and there were no burrs in the liner, I have since run it using 5%n 16% syn and 6%castor, with a 10x4 ac prop and at 10,000 R P M it runs strong in a wet 2 cycle, I'm using a T/Bolt idle bar plug at the present time, and look forward to building a model for it.

  Thanks a lot for the help/suggestions  from everyone...
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Gil Causey
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