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Author Topic: Prop recommendation  (Read 4040 times)

Offline scott matthews

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Prop recommendation
« on: June 22, 2012, 05:45:56 PM »
I have finally flown my Ares today after an extremely long build, and my lap time is around 3 to 4 seconds. I am using an OS 40 FP-S engine and a 11 x4 prop. What kind of propeller and engine set up would you guys recommend? I also noticed that the control response seems to be pretty slow but that could be on my end because I did not even check my handle to see if it was adjusted for neutral. I was to excited to just see this plane fly after the long build.

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 08:02:35 AM »
On my Ares, I'm using an OS 35 and a 10-6 Top Flite Powerpoint Prop.  I also tried the RSM 10-6 on that same motor, and the airplane liked it a lot better since I got slower lap times and more line tension, but the motor was beginning to run out of steam during the square 8.  I have a stronger OS 35 in the Ares now, and that one would swing the RSM prop more happily.  My lap times are ~5.0.  If I flew it any slower, I could end up having line tension issues in high g maneuvers, like the square 8 and the hourglass. This plane likes to fly fast because of its thin airfoil, but 3 to 4 seconds is extremely fast!

How long are your lines?
Matt Colan

Offline scott matthews

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 11:01:19 AM »
Line lenght is 60 foot. Motor is running on muffler pressure with Siq 10% fuel.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 12:17:30 PM »
Line lenght is 60 foot. Motor is running on muffler pressure with Siq 10% fuel.

HI Scott,

The 60' lines should be good, and the 11-4 sounds like a good pitch and diameter.  What rpm are you launching at?

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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 12:27:48 PM »
Line lenght is 60 foot. Motor is running on muffler pressure with Siq 10% fuel.

The line length and fuel choice sounds good! I'm running the same length line and fuel on mine.  I don't have any experience with the 40FP but my personal guess would be to launch it with the motor cracking between a 4 and 2 cycle with that type of prop
Matt Colan

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 02:02:48 PM »
The line length and fuel choice sounds good! I'm running the same length line and fuel on mine.  I don't have any experience with the 40FP but my personal guess would be to launch it with the motor cracking between a 4 and 2 cycle with that type of prop
 
Hi Matt,

A "stock" OS 40FP will want to run like a .20FP.... just shy of WOT.  It will "run away" 99% of the time if set for a 4-2 like the .35S.  But it sounds like Scott is launching at way too high an rpm if it is actually running in the 3 second range of lap times.  About 9500-9800 at launch "should work". YMMV

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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 02:38:08 PM »
The slow control response may be due it being nose heavy. This is common when you put a modern engine w/stock muffler on a small airframe originally designed for a Fox 35 w/out muffler. Try a lighter tongue muffler.  8)
Pete Cunha
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 03:30:53 PM »
 
Hi Matt,

A "stock" OS 40FP will want to run like a .20FP.... just shy of WOT.  It will "run away" 99% of the time if set for a 4-2 like the .35S.  But it sounds like Scott is launching at way too high an rpm if it is actually running in the 3 second range of lap times.  About 9500-9800 at launch "should work". YMMV

BIG Bear
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Hi Bill,

Thanks for correcting me.  I wasn't sure where to launch it at, so I guessed.  H^^
Matt Colan

Offline scott matthews

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 03:38:16 PM »
Just came back from flying, used my tach today and launched at 9500 rpms which sounds like its trying to break into a 4 cycle. I am starting to get the feel for a bigger stunt ship and realize that it does handle smoother than smaller planes. Unfortunately were I fly at is a small play field with a black top track running around it, this only gives me about 20 feet of run way to launch. First flight I was able to coast the plane back around to the track to land, second flight landed fast in the grass. Now I have a loose and cracked wheel pant and  small puncture hole in the bottom of the wing,plus the wheels do not spin smoothly now. If I take the wheel pants off will this majorly effect the way the plane will fly? I was thinking of taking them off and putting a slightly larger tire on (2 1/4 diameter) so that I can fly off of baseball fields and land easier in the grass.

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 04:00:04 PM »
Removing the wheel pants and going to a larger tire would be a good idea for flying off grass. I don't know where you live but if there are other fliers within a reasonable distance, going to their field and getting some help in trimming out your new ride would be a good idea, plus flying with others is more fun than flying alone.8)
Pete Cunha
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 05:01:09 PM »
 
Hi Matt,

A "stock" OS 40FP will want to run like a .20FP.... just shy of WOT.  It will "run away" 99% of the time if set for a 4-2 like the .35S.  But it sounds like Scott is launching at way too high an rpm if it is actually running in the 3 second range of lap times.  About 9500-9800 at launch "should work". YMMV

     I used to see this all the time which led to my telling people to never bother with a stock 40FP on a 35-size plane. Assuming that the ground revs relate to the in-flight revs in the conventional way, yes. But the typical problem is that instead of backing off and unloading maybe 600-800-1000 RPM, it takes of and runs away maybe 2500 rpm, which will give exactly the sort of speeds he is seeing. In fact in that case what frequently happens is that the needle tweaks will change the ground revs but have next to no effect on the inflight speed. I have seen them set so rich on the ground they would barely run and barely take off. Then, at some point, off it goes and you are back at 3.5 seconds a lap.

    This was exactly what led me away from 35/40/46s as Fox replacements and towards the 20/25/28s in that experiment. A schnuerle 40, running away i.e. the way is was intended to run, has far too much power for the typical Fox application. Note this time I actually mean power in the defined engineering sense, not in stunt flier lore. Power = speed assuming you hold everything else constant. A 25, still running near flat-out, has about the right power for these airplanes, or at least is close enough that you can control it.

    The alternatives, I think, are probably - get a different engine for the same mounts like a Rustler 40 Metamorph, get a reworked FP or get this one reworked, or replace it with a 25LA or something like that. Or, hey, how about a Fox? It works fine in a full-fuse airplane. You might get away with  stock 40FP  a TEENY venturi and no other changes but that will likely be as wimpy as a Fox..

Cue the "head gasket patrol"..

    Brett

Offline scott matthews

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 07:28:34 PM »
After launching today at lower rpms the flights were pretty consistent except for the last minute when the fuel was almost gone then the speed increase. The first 2 flights was my fault for tweaking the rpms up to high. I am used to the new 25 La's and not the older engines with a fat sloppy  2 stroke run. I would like to know if you can replace the cat tail type muffler with a 46 la muffler so that the plane does not get caked in loads of caster oil. The muffler I have is blowing the oil all over the wing and fuselage.I am still wanting to know if removing the wheel pants will change the potently that this plane can have?

Offline EddyR

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012, 08:00:33 PM »
With or without wheel pants will have no effect on your plane.
Scott tell us where you are
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2012, 09:31:03 PM »
The track coach will be very PO'd if you are caught using the track surface for other than intended. Cinder tracks are apparently expensive. The dirt baseball diamond...ditto. Don't ask how I found that out.

It would be good for all of us, if you were to post your city/state, so we could get you together with some other stunt fliers for coaching and trimming help...and off that skool track.

Regarding the .40FP-S, the stock muffler doesn't flow enough, so plan on changing that. Restricted flow makes the engine overheat, and causes "run away" (uncontrolled rpm). Too much prop load can also do that. The .46LA muffler would work a lot better, but it's stone heavy, and nobody will use one if they don't need nose weight. I'm running one on my Magnum XLS .36, and it makes it pretty much like a BBTU .20FP.

There are several options (opinions) on how to make a .40FP-S behave, all different. The guys in the NE say to run a 10.5 x 4.5 APC prop, but I don't recall the rest of the magic setup. Here in the NW, the MACS Muffler has been used with good success. The prop for this setup (10-4 Tornado nylon 3 blade) is long since unavailable, but a CF replica is. But then you need a pitch gauge, which is not easy to get. Various other parts of the country have guys that know how to run them, but we still don't know where you are...  ;) Steve
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Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2012, 05:07:52 AM »
Re the wheel pants - I've only ever flown my Ares off grass, and have never had a problem with them. We're talking fairly short, smooth grass though. Mine uses a good Max-S 35 with an RSM 10x6, and has more than enough power. The FP40 is quite a lot heavier, and not ideal for the Ares either weight or power-wise. You could do a lot worse than replacing it with a decent Max-S 35 - they're not hard to find, and I suspect the mount pattern is the same.

Offline scott matthews

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2012, 05:10:26 PM »
So I get the impression that the 40 fp is a heavy engine and not very good for stunt. Would it be better to buy a 46 La  and go with that or  send the 40 to someone to modify? Who would I send it to and what do you think it would cost to modify?My flying location is in Cincinnati Ohio.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2012, 06:19:32 PM »
So I get the impression that the 40 fp is a heavy engine and not very good for stunt. Would it be better to buy a 46 La  and go with that or  send the 40 to someone to modify? Who would I send it to and what do you think it would cost to modify?My flying location is in Cincinnati Ohio.

   The weight is not the biggest issue - its the tendency to take off like a bat out of hell at the slightest provocation, the dreaded "runaway". The 35FP is/was heavier (thicker liner but same everything else) but it could be made to run fairly easily.

   Brett

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2012, 08:36:54 PM »
                  I witness this engine weekly in use with impeccable engine runs. Dennis Moritz from the Philly Fliers ran a full bodied stunter today using the Fp completing several patterns and no tendency to run away as described. I'm thinking he must have some voodoo magic. No special engine work being done other than a head gasket or two. He also flew a newly built profile with a Tower.40 (FP clone in true abc form) that was just impressive. Dennis flies these engines exclusively and truly is the master of FP power. Maybe he will chime in and offer some of his experience on the engine. Ken

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 09:27:33 PM »
                  I witness this engine weekly in use with impeccable engine runs. Dennis Moritz from the Philly Fliers ran a full bodied stunter today using the Fp completing several patterns and no tendency to run away as described. I'm thinking he must have some voodoo magic. No special engine work being done other than a head gasket or two. He also flew a newly built profile with a Tower.40 (FP clone in true abc form) that was just impressive. Dennis flies these engines exclusively and truly is the master of FP power. Maybe he will chime in and offer some of his experience on the engine. Ken
Having about 1/2 dozen Tower 40's I think that I can reasonably say that i've really never had to do anything to them to get acceptable runs, Only use decent fuel and prop them right. I have quite a few 40FP's and never saw any reason to use them on a C/L model. Perhaps when and if I ever run out of Tower 40's
Dennis

Offline phil c

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 07:51:45 AM »
..... I am using an OS 40 FP-S engine and a 11 x4 prop......
You might try using a 10/4 wood prop to let the motor run at the rpm is wants- >10,000rpm.  A smaller venturi to reduce the rpm when it does lean out, and an extra head gasket or two, or increasing the combustion chamber size to reduce speed increase also.
phil Cartier

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2012, 11:26:43 AM »
With FP40s and Tower 40s I have kept to the magic 10.5x4.5 apc. No doubt other props can be tuned in, but these work and are available. I know the FP40/Tower40 frustrations first hand, ran the gamut, experienced run aways, inconsistent runs, good day, bad day, plane/engine combinations. The mysterious changeability of a domesticated FP40s. Very serviceable strong runner morphing into a nasty unusable beast. Engines that run great in Philly, running away at Muncie or Carmichaels. I also had a few modded, ports cut, this didn't work. The result anemic and erratic. In other words I went through the learning process. Why did I keep at it. Things curved upward, getting better gradually. Besides that my good flying buddy Jack Weston had the touch, his FPs working well almost all the time. Competing effectively against the high priced dedicated stunt motors. (Which I like, by the way, just haven't felt the need to go there, yet. Soon. Perhaps.) Too bad Jack was attacked by the electric virus infection. Caught it from our in house Typhoid Mikey. Jack has the ears... for setting a needle. A waste. A waste. Of talent. Now he flicks a switch. Dan Banjok's unremitting determination to make a specific engine/plane combo work, always a process model in my face.

I have found most of the issues with the engines to be traceable to the accessories, the systems that keep these engines lit and running well. Bad fuel tanks that leak or make crud or are plumbed wrong, poor fuel choice (we use Powermaster 22% (50/50) 5% or 10% in almost everything, including Foxes and 4 strokes), clogged filters, dirt in the needle, weak vibrating noses (profiles in particular, but full fues planes can also have this problem), pin holes in tubing, inappropriate, low quality, or worn out plugs (we're into Ernya#3s and Thurderbolt RC longs, at the moment), loose engine bolts or engines mounted up against a vibration enhancer, definitely bad news, and... and... make up the list. Get these right. Build the profile nose stiff. I have been using 1/8" five ply doublers, a tripler closing up the inside side of the engine cut out, good epoxy, checking the doublers and fues, making sure all the parts fit without gaps, weighting the glued elements over night, and so forth. Good wood work adds to longevity, tamps down the vibes. Like I said. Add to this list. Make sure everything outside of the engine itself is right. Amazing how many poor engine runs originate from issues outside of the engine. Often on these forums advisers jump to engine mods without cautioning to check all the other contributors to poor engine runs, factors outside of the engine itself.

I regulate the break with head shims. Usually I start out with 30thousands of shims. Important to measure the thickness of the shims. OS shims typically measure 15 thousands of an inch, Tower 40 shims, (and Leonard Neuman shims -- a great deal), and other after market stampings, typically measure ten thousands of an inch, so, two OS or three Tower. Prop, fuel and plugs specified above. Over the last few years my newest insight into these simple appearing machines, which function complexly, is the regulation of power via venturi. One day the obvious hit me. Venturis are throttles, fixed throttles. If the engine is putting out too much power for a given plane, throttle it back, put in a smaller venturi. Nothing like the obvious to trip up the deep thinkers of stunt. Lately I've grown fond of .272 venturis, midway between the big FP40 and the small FP40. I like Jim Lee's nylon versions, since they are somewhat longer than stock. I think it smooths out the mixture flow. Whether it does so or not. Dunno. If necessary go down to .265. If you use a Supertigre type needle valve, include that in your calculations. The fatter needle further closes down the throttle. If your engine is not overheating and your plane is flying too fast. Throttle back. Smaller opening for air/fuel mix. Set the needle on the ground, at first, after the engine has come up to operating temperature, fifteen seconds at least, set it a bit rich. Observe the plane as it flies. If it leans out too much. Back the needle out a few click. If it's too rich, click it in one or two. Make these corrections increment by increment. Don't be ham handed. Sometimes a click or two in either directions will find the sweet spot. It is the performance on the plane that counts. This may or may not match up with how the engine runs on the ground. Often it does not. Listen to the engine as it flies.

Note: if you ever luck up on an FP-S40 NIB you might find extra head shims and a number of venturis. OS knew what they were doing, including these tuning elements.

Best of luck. No doubt I left stuff out.






Offline Bill Little

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2012, 01:06:13 PM »
I cannot help TOO much with the OS .40FP.  As Brett pointed out, a "box stock" .40FP can be a pain in the rear.

I have run two VERY good OS .40FPs.  One set up by Byron Barker and the other by Tom Hampshire.  Both done some time ago.  Both run "perfect", although a bit different.  Tom's is running at a good bit higher rpm with a low pitch prop and is very strong.  Byron's runs a 10 1/2-5 BYO copy.  It does an excellent break and is still plenty powerful.

Scott,

As funny as this is going to sound, I think the OS .25LA would  the Ares.  Papa Dave Hemstraught flew an ARF Nobler in Classic at Huntersville with a .25LA (stock) and it flys great.

A suggestion would be to send your engine to Byron or Randy Smith and have them do their "magic".  Follow their instructions on how to run it and you will be far ahead of what you are using now.

Bill
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2012, 04:16:46 PM »
             I certainly wouldn't do a mod on a engine that's not irreversible. Adding head gaskets is the simplest most effective mod and you could always switch it back. I've witnessed some of these modded Fp.40's and they certainly didn't run as well as the versions that I see Dennis using. I've had one of these Fp.40's setup by Jack Weston as Dennis stated above. I wouldn't trade that engine out for any other. Nothing other than a good breathing muffler and some head gaskets. Ken

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 04:42:36 PM »
There is absolutely Nothing wrong with a reworked OS FP or many others, But it needs to be done correctly, as does cutting out the metal on heads retiming , or any other mod. and the person using it needs to use as intended  and not try to force feed the engine improper fuel, props or etc....

Randy

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 04:47:27 PM »
             I certainly wouldn't do a mod on a engine that's not irreversible. Adding head gaskets is the simplest most effective mod and you could always switch it back. I've witnessed some of these modded Fp.40's and they certainly didn't run as well as the versions that I see Dennis using. I've had one of these Fp.40's setup by Jack Weston as Dennis stated above. I wouldn't trade that engine out for any other. Nothing other than a good breathing muffler and some head gaskets. Ken

HI Ken,

I can understand your concern, but if you get a true stunt engine out of the deal, then you come out to the good.

Have you seen one of Randy's .40FP or Byron's?  We're talking the best of the best when it comes to stunt engines.  I have had some great running engines by anyone's standards and these .40FP do not disappoint.  Simple to run and dead solid perfect.  I am talking NATS Open quality of engine runs.  And no I have never seen one of Dennis' engines run, but I have seen the best in the World.

BIG Bear
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Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 07:05:32 PM »
As an experiment, try the 6.5mm ID venturi from the FP 20/25 with the 3.5mm OD standard OS NVA. The small venturi that OS used to supply with the FP 35/40 was 6.75mm. Despite what the data on the Tower web site says, the FP20/25 venturis that I have received from them all measure 6.5mm and the large one for the FP 40/LA 46 measure 7.1mm. I was lucky enough to find a 6.75mm reamer on eBay to modify FP 20/25 venturis but a 17/64" drill only differs at the third decimal place.

Years ago, the attached article was published in Stunt News. The same idea may work on the 40.

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2012, 04:29:53 AM »
Seems as tho Geoff's article aligns with many of the observations I made while evolving an approach to FP/LA for stunt. I have talked with a number of engine tuners of FPs and LAs who do not re-time the ports.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2012, 10:19:01 AM »
There is absolutely Nothing wrong with a reworked OS FP or many others, But it needs to be done correctly, as does cutting out the metal on heads retiming , or any other mod. and the person using it needs to use as intended  and not try to force feed the engine improper fuel, props or etc....

    I have seen a remarkable number of butcher jobs on 40FPs, far more than any other engine (although the Fox 40 schneurle is a close second). They are (were, I guess) so common and they are such poor stunt motors out of the box that it seemed to open the floodgate to every guy with a Dremel tool.

    Brett

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2012, 01:42:25 PM »
   I have seen a remarkable number of butcher jobs on 40FPs, far more than any other engine (although the Fox 40 schneurle is a close second). They are (were, I guess) so common and they are such poor stunt motors out of the box that it seemed to open the floodgate to every guy with a Dremel tool.

    Brett

As have I, I also have seen a large amount of ST 46s that were butchered along with many FOX and FSR clones, That doesn;t change what I stated, if work is done it needs to be done correctly in order to ..NOT... butcher the motor, I personally have done 100s of them along with many clones and others, I can tell you it is very easy to hurt a motor by doing the wrong thing.
On the LA 35 and 40 one of the things that caused major problems was OS not using a .157 diameter spray bar as they had done in the past with older 30 35 40 and 45 sized motors  (30S , 35S,  40 FSR etc,.), instead they used the 20 Needle assembly on the FP series, which is much smaller, many people still used a 265 to 290 venturie which acted more like a 295 to 320 size venturie because of the decreased spray bar area covering the venturie area. This caused very hard breaks and engine runaway. As it will in most all stunt engines that if setup in this manner.
IF you add to the above fact, a 10 x 6 or 11 x 6 prop as many did, you have a recipe for disaster..

Regards
Randy
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 10:17:19 PM by RandySmith »

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2012, 09:47:35 PM »
Randy, you have me confused re the OS NVAs.

I have always thought the NVA in all the FPs from the 20 up used the same NVA 3.5mm (0.138") dia from their release. Certainly all the FP 20s and 40s that I have converted used M3.5 screws in the carb and the stock NVA, OS part number 22311000 was a neat fit. Same thing with the two LA 46s that I converted.

You talked about a 0.157" (4mm) OD NVA. I have always believed that the Super Tigre, Thunder Tiger and Enya NVAs were 4mm. I've never had an OS FSR so maybe, that's the NVA you were talking about.

With venturis, we had that article from Stunt News suggesting the FP 20/25 venturi (6.5mm, 0.256") for the FP 35 and several people in our club are happy with the same in FP 40s. I tried an FP 40 first with the 6.5mm venturi and then 6.75mm (.266") in one model and while I was moderately happy with the 6.75mm venturi, the model is fairly porky and the engine struggled a bit. I replaced the engine with an LA46, first with a 6.75mm venturi, but I settled on the large FP 40/LA 46 venturi from Tower (7.1mm, 0.280"). One fellow in our club—a former Oz National Champ—was happy with an LA 46 in his somewhat lighter model using a 6.75mm venturi.

All of this is using the factory OS 22311000 NVA. As you rightly point out, if you use the larger diameter NVA, everything changes. None of the examples that I am thinking about involved cutting on the liners or crankcases.

Sorry about the metric units but I have been designing machines and machine tooling in metric and imperial units, depending on the country of origin of the machines, since about 1973. I find 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 6.5, etc, easier to remember than the imperial conversions.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2012, 10:15:54 PM »
Randy, you have me confused re the OS NVAs.

I have always thought the NVA in all the FPs from the 20 up used the same NVA 3.5mm (0.138") dia from their release. Certainly all the FP 20s and 40s that I have converted used M3.5 screws in the carb and the stock NVA, OS part number 22311000 was a neat fit. Same thing with the two LA 46s that I converted.

You talked about a 0.157" (4mm) OD NVA. I have always believed that the Super Tigre, Thunder Tiger and Enya NVAs were 4mm. I've never had an OS FSR so maybe, that's the NVA you were talking about.

With venturis, we had that article from Stunt News suggesting the FP 20/25 venturi (6.5mm, 0.256") for the FP 35 and several people in our club are happy with the same in FP 40s. I tried an FP 40 first with the 6.5mm venturi and then 6.75mm (.266") in one model and while I was moderately happy with the 6.75mm venturi, the model is fairly porky and the engine struggled a bit. I replaced the engine with an LA46, first with a 6.75mm venturi, but I settled on the large FP 40/LA 46 venturi from Tower (7.1mm, 0.280"). One fellow in our club—a former Oz National Champ—was happy with an LA 46 in his somewhat lighter model using a 6.75mm venturi.

All of this is using the factory OS 22311000 NVA. As you rightly point out, if you use the larger diameter NVA, everything changes. None of the examples that I am thinking about involved cutting on the liners or crankcases.

Sorry about the metric units but I have been designing machines and machine tooling in metric and imperial units, depending on the country of origin of the machines, since about 1973. I find 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 6.5, etc, easier to remember than the imperial conversions.

Hi Geoff

They now do always use the 20 size, that was NOT the case in the past...that was what I stated.

Up until the FP 35 40 came out the standard size used in the OS engines were the same as Enya and Super Tiger and many others, approx .157,
The OS 30S used a 157
the OS 35S used a 157
The H 40 used a 157
The 40 and 45 FSR used a 157
same as we all used and got used to, so when you go to a 280 venturie in a FSR with a 157, then  use a NVA that is about 30 thousands smaller it does not correlate to the 280, that now acts like a 310 or so venturie. 
So as I stated this caused many runaway problems from using a way too large venturie and thinking it had the same area as a 280 from an earlier motor that had a spraybar that was 30 thousands larger diameter

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Prop recommendation
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 11:29:50 PM »
Thanks Randy. Always happy to learn from the experts.

I was a bit surprised to find that the NVA for the FP 10 was 0.157" both sides at the crankcase and turned down across the venturi but I've been told that the FP 10 used a small FSR NVA. Your explanation probably applies to the FP 10 as well.

I suspected what you have clarified but all that occurred at a time when I was not involved.

Thanks again.


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