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Author Topic: Plug depth  (Read 794 times)

Offline BillLee

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Plug depth
« on: January 28, 2023, 08:59:33 AM »
Does anyone have information/suggestion for the plug depth in the head for a .25 running on 10% fuel? Making a head insert for a truggy conversion.

Also would like any comments regarding combustion chamber shape: taper? single hemi? double bubble?

Regards,

Bill Lee
Bill Lee
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2023, 10:18:23 AM »
  I have never looked into it in a way that you might, but in dealing with mostly LA.25, FP-25, and Brodak .25 engines I have used on stunt models and casually looked at heads and plug fits, a standard plug (long reach) would have the body just flush with the combustion chamber. I use mostly R/C plugs with idle bars largely to help protect the element and it gives carbon some place to grow instead of inside and over the element chamber. I use 10% nitro content fuel with 20% total oil generally, as 10% usually gives a pretty consistent needle setting over the temperature range that I usually fly at. I'll drop to 5% for more run time if I can't do anything else to increase tank capacity and generally I don't like to add stuff to the fuel to stretch out the run. Head shape would be anybody's guess. hemi heads of varying dimensions are used on bigger engines to soften the break and help combustion. You see Fox .35 heads in slant plug configuration in combination with a slight hemi chamber,  both from the read and from the side, but I haven't ever heard or read any explanations of theory for this. Just not much experimentation with .25s in stunt. Lots of club racing with them, especially down under in Australia and New Zealand, so maybe one of those guys will chime in, or if you have any contacts there you might ask them directly.  I hope this helps.
  Type at you later,
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2023, 05:23:41 PM »
In the Lew woolard FOX 40 fing , he says if the plugs more than ( .280 ? ? ? ) that , from the piston  ( at T.D.C. ) goodbye charlie . It Wont do its stuff .

so theres a plug face to piston face EFFECT . Whatever it is - be intresting theory . Car / Boat / speed guys might be onto it .

https://www.calverst.com/technical-info/combustion-chamber-shape/



Er . . . right . . . ? . . . :-\

 >:(

Roundabout 1970 here https://rcbookcase.com/categories.php?publisher_id=25&page=2 theres the Big George aldric SPEED toonin info , ones gotta drawings of head / chamber contours .
This is Pre Rossi Engines , when the ' COX ' plug was king . Later the Rossi usedb that there shape . But this is in the 20's / mid 20's rpm's . If you up in the 30's , who knows .

But a safe bet ? would be Trumpet with just recessed Nelson Plug , so theres a plug bore diameter hole into the chamber . If it dosnt tear of the plug element weld .  :(

In the aeromodelor Mag.s there , around 68 / theres a ' Super tuned ' record holder Italian reworked 21-29 Super tigre Artical . Pretty sure he ran a custom trumpet head . Worth a look .

Offline Reptoid

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2023, 02:49:11 PM »
Does anyone have information/suggestion for the plug depth in the head for a .25 running on 10% fuel? Making a head insert for a truggy conversion.

Also would like any comments regarding combustion chamber shape: taper? single hemi? double bubble?

Regards,

Bill Lee

Hi Bill;
     I sent you a private message with head data. It will get you in the ballpark
   
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2023, 10:19:55 AM »
What little I remember about my experiments with head shapes was that too shallow a combustion chamber resulted in more blown glowplugs. Beyond that, I didn't think shape mattered. I would measure the depth from squishband to glowplug on the stock head, and not go too much short of that dimension. I'm assuming you're using Nelson glowplugs or maybe Turbo type.

When I looked at converting R/C car engines to aviation, it seemed like all of them used Turbo-type plugs. I'd at least start by turning off a lot of the fins and use that as my reference head.  H^^ Steve

PS: What's John up to? 
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2023, 01:33:55 PM »
The guys running tether cars over 250 mph must know something about tuning. Those things sound like they are screaming more than anything I have ever heard. It takes them a few laps to get there, but when they do it is a huge increase in RPM. 
Jim Kraft

Offline Les Akre

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Re: Plug depth
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2023, 06:50:54 PM »
Hi Bill

I'm guessing it's for a Slow Rat Engine conversion?? The method I use is my totally unscientific, cut and try method. There are others...

Firstly, figure out what the maximum head clearance you want is, it can be adjusted slightly later. Then, I would start with std. single bowl hemi shape, 50% squish with about 1 degree chamfer on approx. 50% of the squish band. I would start with a plug height of around .120"-.125". You'll probably end up lower than that for max power. I would build the head insert extra thick in the flange area so there's room for material removal when lowering the height. Obviously, you'll have to remove from the squish surface as well, which will increase the compression, and you'll have to redo the squish angle each time you do this. If it runs faster, but blows plugs, open up the combustion bowl sides until it stops. Don't add head shims...

That's about it for now, Les


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