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Author Topic: Super Cyclone fix  (Read 1039 times)

Offline Jim Kraft

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Super Cyclone fix
« on: December 28, 2012, 03:47:19 PM »
I have a Super Cyke repro that I bought about 15 years ago that has been run a lot and has slowly lost compression. It was not bad cold with oil in it, but after it got warmed up it was hard starting.
  I was talking to Lew Wollard at Tulsa's contest, and he told me how to grow cast iron pistons mostly for McCoy Red Heads. So I decided to try that on my Cyke. I put a piece of 1/8" welding rod in my vice and put the piston on top. Then I took my propane torch and heated it to where it was just starting to turn red and dropped it in a can of motor oil. After it cooled I checked it with my mic, and it was about 1/2 to 3/4 thousandth bigger than when I started. I put it back in the engine and ran a couple of tanks of fuel through it, and it now has better compression than it ever did before.
 So if you have an old engine with a cast iron piston you might want to give this a try if it is down on compression. Being a cheap skate, I am always looking for ways to fix these old engines without spending a lot of money.
Jim Kraft

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 02:08:12 AM »
Hello Jim,
I usually try this dodge before making a new piston. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. Be sure to clean up the piston before using it. Most times I find that the surface wears rapidly and you are back where you started.The odd piston does however respond to the treatment.
I think it depends on the heat treatment history of the piston.

Regards,

Andrew
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 02:35:52 AM »
I usually try this dodge before making a new piston. Sometimes it works and sometimes not.

   If you are not careful, there's some non-zero chance of cracking the piston, too.

    Brett

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 05:07:58 AM »
Quite a few people I know try this technique and some even hit the piston with an oxyacetylene torch! Even the most vicious heating treatment seems not to have produced a cracked piston!
I use a sophisticated electric furnace, constructed to do the job in a painless way. It has PID control and the ability to flow inert gases or carbon rich gases around the piston.
The results I get are no better or worse than the crude propane torch! I think it takes a particular type of person to destroy a piston by heating it!
  Mind you, in a previous post, I said I used a remote glow connection fed by a constant current circuit (adjusted for the correct plug current). I was asked what sort of battery I was using. I said a lead acid gell cell (6 or 12 volt). The gentleman then said he tried the same thing and blew the glow plug. Totally ignoring the constant current circuit. So I suppose you have to be very careful of what you recommend on a forum, just in case.

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 06:09:58 AM »
I tried this on an old piston that was unusable first, before doing it on my good one. I know George Aldrich was doing this on some pistons, and he told me the same thing as you Andrew. I was going to have him do a piston out of my Madewell 49, and he said they had already been treated and would not grow. And yes, I think this would only be good if you had an engine that was no good any way, and you could try this to see if you could save it.
Jim Kraft

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 11:19:23 AM »
Hello Jim,
The most success I have had are with the sintered pistons, especially McCoy 29 and 35 redheads. Although they are easy to do with a small toffee hammer! (Hope Brett doesn't read this!) and lap back to fit.
It is very interesting that the company that made the McCoy sintered pistons also made the pistons for the Johnson 29 and 35. Looks like Johnson paid a little more for the correct heat treatment. I must do a little reading about sintered metal technology and see what heat treatments are called for. The design of the McCoy is one that is very effective for traditional stunt runs, the execution of the design left a lot to be desired, especially the piston!
I am not quite sure why one should be too troubled by destroying a piston in these circumstances. The engine is useless anyway, as the piston is worn out! You have anything to lose in such circumstances.

Regards,

Andrew

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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 12:16:47 PM »
Quite a few people I know try this technique and some even hit the piston with an oxyacetylene torch! Even the most vicious heating treatment seems not to have produced a cracked piston!

    Well, I guess we are all stupid over here, because I have seen several cases of it. Like this one, the piston from a Phantom P30. This was gently heated with a propane torch and cracked long before any color appeared. Of course, it was already worn out to the point of needing replacement so no real loss, but it was (reportedly) the engine used for the last "B" Speed record set *below* 100 mph, it was broken the next day by the first flight over 100 mph.

   I believe this one is sintered iron, so presumably more likely to be brittle.

    Brett


Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2012, 03:15:11 PM »
Andrew; That is my prefered method on the McCoy Red Heads also. Just a little tap tap with the hammer and they are good to go for another couple of years. I put a half hour on the Cyke today, and the compression hot and cold is superb. I read over on RCU where a guy did the heat treating to a diesel and said it was the best running one of those he ever had. So I guess we do get lucky sometimes. The piston in the Cyke is a rather thick walled casting that is machined on the top and outside. I am hoping that it also hardened it a little to where it will last a little longer.

I may have to try the heat thing on one of my McCoy's next time it needs work. I have done the hammer trick on about 15 of them without problems though. Like the old drunken mechanic in my home town use to say, " don't force it, get a bigger hammer."
Jim Kraft

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2012, 03:34:27 PM »
Andrew; That is my prefered method on the McCoy Red Heads also. Just a little tap tap with the hammer and they are good to go for another couple of years. I put a half hour on the Cyke today, and the compression hot and cold is superb. I read over on RCU where a guy did the heat treating to a diesel and said it was the best running one of those he ever had. So I guess we do get lucky sometimes. The piston in the Cyke is a rather thick walled casting that is machined on the top and outside. I am hoping that it also hardened it a little to where it will last a little longer.

I may have to try the heat thing on one of my McCoy's next time it needs work. I have done the hammer trick on about 15 of them without problems though. Like the old drunken mechanic in my home town use to say, " don't force it, get a bigger hammer."

Hi Jim,

Just how do you do the "hammer tap"? ;D  I have heat treated several McCoy Red Heads with mixed results.  Some came out very well, others not so.

Bill
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2012, 04:04:05 PM »
Hi Bill; I just put the piston on an anvil and tap the domed head with a hammer. You do have to be careful as you can break them pretty easy. A few taps with a small hammer will spread the top of the piston and restore compression. After lapping back in and running, it will get a shiney rim at the top of the piston about 1/8" wide. I have done this to my McCoy 35's and 40's as much as three or four times. The ones I run a lot I do about every two years. Some guys just put the piston in the bottom of the cyl. and put the whole thing upright on the anvil. Then use a wide punch down through the top of the cyl. to hit the piston with a hammer. Since the bottom of the cyl. are larger than the top it will expand the piston without going to far. This only works of course on pistons that have a domed head. I did this to the piston in my old Forster 29 ignition engine, and it has run with great compression for years now and it has a steel piston. I have also done quite a few for friends.
Jim Kraft

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Super Cyclone fix
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 01:37:00 PM »
Thanks for the info, Jim.  I suspect that any McCoys that I did this way would never be in threat of wearing out in my lifetime. ;D  None will probably get to the 100 flight mark.........

Bill
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James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by


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