News:


  • April 16, 2024, 01:31:32 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Peeled liner that still runs very well?  (Read 1163 times)

Offline frank mccune

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1621
Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« on: January 15, 2021, 09:46:37 AM »
      Hello all:

      A friend of mine gave me an OS .46AX for evaluation. After removing the head, I noticed that the plating on the cylinder was about 50% peeled.  Despite this, engine started instantly both hot and cold with a quick bump with an electric starter.  It ran perfectly at high speed and idle.

     Now the question is what do with the engine:

     Sell it at a flea market.

     Use it as a CL engine.

     Give it to a “friend.”

     He is asking for advice.

     Suggestions/comments?

     Stay well,

     Frank McCune

     

     

     

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13727
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2021, 10:12:13 AM »
A friend of mine gave me an OS .46AX for evaluation. After removing the head, I noticed that the plating on the cylinder was about 50% peeled.

    WHY OH WHY did you TAKE IT APART!?  Particularly in the light of:

Quote
engine started instantly both hot and cold with a quick bump with an electric starter.  It ran perfectly at high speed and idle.

      Which tells you what?  It tells you that if you had done NOTHING to the engine, you would have been perfectly OK with it, at least for now. Now you have an engine that has been idly disassembled and reassembled, and are neurosing over something that apparently makes no difference.

    If it runs OK then it is obviously irrelevant whether it is "peeled" or not peeled. It might wear out someday, otherwise, it might run fine for you for the next 10 years. Most of my OS engines have never been apart, so I actually have no idea whether any of them are "peeled" or not peeled. The few I have worn out, the liner was OK, but the point is that it was worn out, not what happened to be or not be on the liner.

   Don't take engines apart unless you have to, ever. If something goes wrong, then, that's another matter, but even after you disassembled and reassembled it, this one works OK, so by definition, *nothing has gone wrong*. Disassembling it for "inspection" (and presumably "fixing" it if it fails inspection, which is really what you are asking about) seems a little over the top.

   My suggestion in this case - don't remove the carb, don't put on a venturi, put your tools away, rig it to work at partial throttle to adjust the speed, and then just fly it, don't "inspect" the insides, and only touch it with a tool if it won't run any more.

    Brett
   

Offline frank mccune

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1621
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2021, 11:25:56 AM »
      Hello Brett:

      WOW chill Dude!,  I do not consider removing the head on one of these engines as taking apart!  I doubt that anything destructive could,would have happened to the engine.  If you know of any damage that may be caused by removing the head, kindly share this knowledge.

       I did this to observe the p&c for obvious dirt damage etc. prior to turning the engine over to check for problems.  It is a great time to insure that there is lube in this critical area.

     Stay well,

     Frank

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13727
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2021, 11:51:54 AM »
      Hello Brett:

      WOW chill Dude!,  I do not consider removing the head on one of these engines as taking apart!  I doubt that anything destructive could,would have happened to the engine.  If you know of any damage that may be caused by removing the head, kindly share this knowledge.

     Again, I am not trying to pick on you, but how is removing 4 of the 8 (or 6 of 10) of the fasteners that hold the entire engine together not "taking it apart"?  There are dozens of ways to change it by doing that, you could rotate the liner, you could mis-tighten it. And there is already another thread where 8 of the 18 parts in the entire engine were replaced because of improper operation of a screwdriver.

   And in fact, you came on wanting someone to tell you to get a replacement liner, or a "better" one, maybe with "stunt numbers", which means taking it all the way apart and probably modifying it to destruction - and I have seen that over and over and over again, and most of your threads are like that.

    Guys, everyone, not just Frank - unless you *know* there is a problem, or it has been crashed and not cleaned out, *leave it alone*, don't take off the head, backplate, etc. to see what is in it, or whatever.  I see this *incessantly*, why?  You hadn't even run it, much less flown it. If you fly it, experiment for a while, find a problem, diagnose the problem, then need to change something, then yes, fine.

  I am getting frustrated because of the thread after thread after thread where someone pre-emptively disassembles or modifies their engine, then complains that this or that part or engine is "no good", and then start grinding it or doing special tricks with it, and then go down the rathole.

    As always, it's your engine, you can do what you want, no skin off my nose. It's just advice. But when you have problems later, the first question will always be "did you take it apart and/or modify it?", and if so, it will frequently mean that someone else will have to put it back, or you will never get a good engine run.

    In this case, you may have gotten away with it, but that is TBD, since you haven't flown it, and no one knows whether it will ever be a good engine for our purposes. Now, we CAN'T know from this engine, it has been fiddled with, if it has a problem later, it might be due to the fact that it's not a very good engine for CL, or, it might be that this particular engine is somehow not working normally because of this.

    Brett

     


Offline kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2021, 06:59:03 PM »
                  I own a FX .25 which is peeling. To my surprise, it still runs quite well. Until it goes, I'm going to enjoy it. It starts well cold and hot so I'm not going to worry about it until it finally stops. I've purchased a spare so until then, it will continue it's use.

           If one is inexperienced in taking these engines apart, damage can be done by just removing the head. If the engine is turned over and the sleeve lifts, it can be disengaged from the roll pin which indexes it. If gone unnoticed, and the head gets tightened down again with the roll pin improperly aligned, then yes damage can take place distorting the top of the liner and the liner itself. 

           A replacement piston cylinder is about $80. This would also require new circlips to retain the wrist pin as I wouldn't try and reuse the old ones.

Offline frank mccune

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1621
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2021, 11:29:35 AM »
      Hello All:

       Thank you for all of the replies.

       No, I do not idly take engines apart.  I have learned my lesson re. engines and clocks. Lol.

       I forgot about how stupid the masses can be.  Or should I say ignorant?  I also place myself in this category.  Oh yes, aging does not help this process.  I guess that damage is possible by rr a glow plug.  I too have seen that the pin in the crankcase that locates the cylinder, crushed flat under the flange by improper installation.  I also have seen unspeakable crimes against engines due to poor uses of screwdrivers pliers etc.

       Many questions that I have posed on this site concern engines that are not mine.  Most have had incorrect parts installed, damaged parts, and engines that have been ruined by abuse. 

        In any case thanks for the help and stay well.

        Frank




     

Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6852
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2021, 04:35:40 PM »
   What you are referring to as "peeling" may actually just be worn through in spots and not peeling away. I have never seen this in an engine, but the nickel coating could have been pretty thin to begin with and still be bonded to the liner bore. The fit of the piston is still good enough for compression and ignition to happen. To my thinking, if metal was peeling off, it could jam between the piston skirt and cylinder wall, and cause scoring or gouging and maybe even cause the engine to seize. It sounds like it's just a matter of some poor quality control. A cylinder bore that is too small, a piston diameter that is too large, and not enough room for a proper coating to be applied to a proper thickness so it would finish out to allow for normal wear without wearing through. If a person had the equipment and skills, you could hone the liner out enough for a real chrome surface to be applied, or another nickel coating, and then honed to a proper diameter and piston fit. That's a lot of work and expense for a cheap engine. I think this all may just be a simple matter of parts quality control, and the parts just being inside the tolerance required by the factory to be assembled into running engines.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Curare

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 779
Re: Peeled liner that still runs very well?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2021, 06:37:39 PM »
I have an OS 61 SF that had countless hours of flying with a liner that was showing the brass (I don't think that it's peeled, just thin) and ran fine right up until the day I buried it after I folded the wing at the bottom of a square (RC) loop. I destroyed the carb, but that was all that was really wrong with it.

That engine has a new carb and a Brian Gardner P&L waiting to go into it and it'll probably do another decade's flying.
Greg Kowalski
AUS 36694


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here