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Author Topic: OS Liner Peeling  (Read 6181 times)

Offline Paul Allen

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OS Liner Peeling
« on: October 06, 2024, 04:51:54 AM »
What causes liner peeling on the LA 46.

Offline Brad LaPointe

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2024, 07:45:27 AM »
Lean runs ,crappy fuel , dodgy manufacturing. Pick one - or all of the above .

Brad

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2024, 10:29:46 AM »
Lean runs ,crappy fuel , dodgy manufacturing. Pick one - or all of the above .

Brad

     This answer pretty much covers it. My opinion is that it was a cheap nickel type material applied really thin and then started to come loose when the engine over heats and/or runs too lean too long. The only case of this I have experienced, oddly enough, was on a OS .32F that had the coating come loos on the outside of the liner below the exhaust. Flakes got down into the rear bearing, and you shoulda heard the noises THAT made!! . I took the engine apart, polished the area down a bit to feather the edges of the coating, and put it back together. The piston/liner fit was still very good, and the affected area really didn't make any contact with the case, so I figured why not run it . Replacement liners are not that easy to find. The LA .46s I have been running have shown no sign of this, and I think if you chose props carefully, and watch you oil content to avoid too little or too much, I don't think you will have much problem.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Manuel Cortes

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2024, 11:34:27 AM »
Hi all.

IMHO, (excluding my mechanich engeneering formed mind) the problem is a very light and cheap plating surface of the liner.

Excessive temperature operating (low oil or lean mixture) would result in the expanding otf the liner, not causing the peeling.

As a matter of fact, ask for a peeling liner in Stalker, Fora, Discovery, Brian Gardner units.... for example, Dereck Pickard in 1996 made a destroy test of a Stalker 46 trying to run it lean and with a very little prop without any problem.... after the test the PL assy mantained the "nip" at the top dead center....

P.S. My mechanich engeneering formed mind has the same opinion.

Cheap plating procedure.

Kind regards from Spain.

Manuel.

Offline Paul Allen

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2024, 01:45:07 PM »
Thanks for the reply's, the motor in question was an RC version and had little use and no lean runs, it was gummed up and I stripped it down for a clean out, very thin liner in the LA 46. I have a Gardner P/L, guess it now has a home.

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2024, 01:50:28 PM »
I have one LA 46 that had the same problem.  I had factory replacement parts so no big deal.  Let's face facts here.  The LA 46 is a pretty good engine and when in production, you could not beat the price.  However, corners were cut to keep the price down.  Except for that one problem, all have run very well, and I can't complain.

Offline Motorman

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2024, 01:55:26 PM »
Someone told me the LA engines had a bad run of liner coatings at one time so, some are good and some not good. I had one or two go bad but others that ran good until they wore through to the brass. One thing to keep an eye on are the teflon pads on the wrist pin. Should be replaced if you're putting in a new P/L.

MM :)   
Wasted words ain't never been heard. Alman Brothers

Offline Paul Allen

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2024, 07:54:35 PM »
 Picture of the damaged liner, checked the oldest LA 46  I have, it has done a fair bit of work ( blue case) and the liner is good. Same fuel used in both.
Liner in pic still had some cross hatch in it.

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2024, 07:58:09 PM »
My understanding is that, around the time of the VF's, the Japanese govt banned the use of chrome due to the noxious chemicals required so nickel was next best replacement. An advantage was that the brass liner could be finish machined and only an extremely thin coating of nickel was needed and no further finish machining was needed. However I suspect if there was any trace of contamination on the liner then the nickel may not have been deposited securely to the brass. This is also why the liners are plated all over so there's no discontinuity in the plating. The best engines I've come across with nickel plating is the Enya CXR series which uses a nickel plated silicon carbide composite, usually called Nikasil but that's a trademarked name :).

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2024, 09:22:47 PM »
Some posts I've read said that the LA series cylinders are sometimes out of round pretty badly, resulting in wear, compression and peeling problems.

I wouldn't know about that. The ONE .46LA I've run since they first came out was an early edition, purchased at the Model Expo 25+ years ago. I heard soon after that they were known to have very thin nickle plating (later ones were said to be thicker), so I ran mine on 10-29 Powermaster for 1 gallon worth of flying time. After that, went to 10-22. Not sure how much the fuel matters, but it can't hurt.

Always liked the APC 11.5x4 prop...not too much load, but great thrust, and easy to replace. I personally think the 12.25x3.75 APC is too much unless you bore out the muffler exit tube as much as possible and run 15% vitamin N.  y1 Steve
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Mike Greb

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2024, 03:03:23 PM »
I have had some os liners look pretty gnarly and still ran ok .  I have a os 25 sf that has a big chunk of the nickel  slightly above the exhaust and it still runs fine. If I had not taken the head off I would not have known anything about it.  I had one 46fx that was being run on 50%nitro on a carrier model. Got away with it for several contest and then all of the sudden it started feeling quite crunchy.  So much for that engine.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2024, 03:59:57 PM »
I have had some os liners look pretty gnarly and still ran ok .  I have a os 25 sf that has a big chunk of the nickel  slightly above the exhaust and it still runs fine. If I had not taken the head offI would not have known anything about it

    Exactly!

    Brett

p.s. I would add that most of the "fixes" for this are also failures, with various people honing and chroming the liner, or chroming the piston, or variations of that, and never running right again. And if it runs OK, it doesn't need a fix. But many people preemptively "fix" this rare issue and wreck the engine before they even run it. That's one reason why I suggest to most people to never take it apart unless there is a demonstrated problem with the run, there is no other external reason it doesn't run right,  or it gets crashed and gets dirt in it.

  You are obviously qualified to work on it, but most people aren't.

Offline Paul Allen

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Re: OS Liner Peeling
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2024, 05:22:18 PM »
Brett
        You are right, last time the motor ran it was fine and the piston looks good no damage.
Motor was gummed up and I like to check the wrist pin is free, which in this motor is was not.


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