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Author Topic: all you controlline engine experts out there!  (Read 1848 times)

Offline Timothy Payne

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all you controlline engine experts out there!
« on: November 17, 2012, 05:03:15 AM »
Hello to all you controlline engine experts out there!

In case you missed my last post, I have just finished rebuilding a rather old (and abused) Fox 36 BB engine. I'm running it in on a 28% mix (approx 7.5% nitro) with 10% unleaded petrol added. - Eases cold starts allegedly!

Running in on a 10*6 prop on about 3 turns of the needle valve, occasionally 'blipping' it by pinching the fuelpipe.
All is well except for the spraybar (or so I think).

When the engine is running a small amount of fuel gets sucked out of the carb by the propellor. Why bother about such a small thing I hear you ask?

So upon inspection of my PAW249, I discovered that the main jet (one in both casrs) in the spraybar was facing forwards. Yes yoy guessed it, the Fox spraybar jet was facing the opposite way towards the cylinder!

Ritated the spraybar and fired it up, but this has made little difference.

Is there a correct way to fit these single jet spraybars, or is it simply due to that rather radical slanted fox carb?

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 06:47:54 AM »
Tim
From what I understand you want the hole in the spray bar pointing down into the case.
I also think your fuel is not correct. If it is cold weather I would suggest 5/29. Leave the petrol out just so you are working with a good baseline.

Please give it a try and report back.  H^^
Paul
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 08:41:55 PM »
Over the years I have come to point the hole(s) in the spray bar slightly forward of the main flow of the air down the venturi passage in this way the air and fuel mix is more finely atomized as it enters the block and therefore less likely to bubble up out of the passage due to prop vacuum!

Phil Spillman
 
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 07:24:17 AM »
If the fuel is spashing out the venturi you must be running a pressure system with a VERY large venturi.  There is simply not enough air flow to direct all the fuel into the engine.  If you run a smaller venturi it will improve suction and get the fuel & air into the engine.  Unless you decrease the throat to a very small size you will not lose power.

I think the 10-6 prop is part of the problem.  You are under-revving the engine. Use no more than a 9-6.  This will improve fuel flow and increase power a lot.

Finally, I've never mixed gasoline with glow fuel.  I have heard that adding a bit of gas is a trick that can be used to boost run time if you fuel tank is too small.  Gasoline is a lot more volatile and explosive that glow fuel.  I prefer to leave it where it belongs, in the car.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 07:39:05 PM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline Timothy Payne

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 08:08:22 PM »
I read an article about nitro fuel on RCM&E recently which states petrol has a flash point of -45·C, methanol 11·C and nitromethane 43·C.

Whilst using a higher nitro content fuel (10%+) a petrol additive isn't really necessary, although if using fuel with a lower nitro content (up to 5%) adding 10% petrol does seem to make a difference. There is little chance of engine damage and one big adventage is there's much less chance of internal corrosion.

I've been using this to run-in my Fox 36X on cold mornings as an experiment with great success! - It's also a good way of topping-up half gallon fuel containers too, just remember to make up the oil content lost after adding petrol!

Definately one to try (especially for you Canadians up there with all that snow and ice!!!).

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 08:18:25 AM »
I remember an article years ago in RCM by Clarence Lee in which he said adding 10% gasoline to your fuel in the winter time would help cold starts alot, and make the engine run a little warmer which would also help. I have mixed gasoline with glow fuel for my sparkers to get the run time that I wanted out of a full tank of fuel.
Jim Kraft

Offline tom hampshire

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 09:20:42 AM »
     You might also try adding naptha (lighter fluid), ether, acetone, or propylene oxide.  Any of these will help in keeping a marginal plug lit, as well as in cold weather starting.  Supertigre mentioned adding 1% acetone to glo fuel in engine manuals from the 60's.  By all means, keep a squirt can of lighter fluid in your box for the winter months, for priming.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 12:30:05 PM »
     You might also try adding naptha (lighter fluid), ether, acetone, or propylene oxide.  Any of these will help in keeping a marginal plug lit, as well as in cold weather starting.  Supertigre mentioned adding 1% acetone to glo fuel in engine manuals from the 60's.  By all means, keep a squirt can of lighter fluid in your box for the winter months, for priming.

    Naptha is probably a better choice than PO. Easier to get, and doesn't evaporate nearly as fast. I ran small amount for years but it just goes away too quickly.

   With modern AAC engines I haven't had any problem starting them down to the upper 30s, aside from the tendency to kick back. But I certainly recall trying to get Foxes, ST's, etc, going at low temps.

     Brett

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 03:51:40 PM »

Is there a correct way to fit these single jet spraybars, or is it simply due to that rather radical slanted fox carb?


I believe that 15º below the horizon (this is when you view the intake straight down) is the correct place for maximum suction and although this is a small sweet spot to aim for at least it gives you a start point. (Rotate the spray bar so that the jet just disappears from view and it will be very close.)

Placing a jet forward or back seems to make little difference but I like to rotate to the back because the engine almost always tractors forward in use and the angled slipstream may influence where the real 'down' angle of the venturi will be.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 04:48:58 PM by Chris Wilson »
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Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: all you controlline engine experts out there!
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 09:57:02 PM »
Quote
I believe that 15º below the horizon (this is when you view the intake straight down) is the correct place for maximum suction and although this is a small sweet spot to aim for at least it gives you a start point. (Rotate the spray bar so that the jet just disappears from view and it will be very close.)

Placing a jet forward or back seems to make little difference but I like to rotate to the back because the engine almost always tractors forward in use and the angled slipstream may influence where the real 'down' angle of the venturi will be.

Thanks.

For single hole spray bars the hole should, for best results, be centered in the Venturi, with the single hole facing slightly downward -just barely out-of-sight and to the rear for non-pressured systems. At that position, static pressure is at its lowest and dynamic pressue is at its highest, resulting in some pressure help in the fuel draw. As long as the engine is running such help will always be there.

When I became old enough to pursue CL Stunt and Sport, I soon found out that the O.S. and Enya one-hole needle valves far out weighed Fox's 2-holer for reliable ehgine runs.
Horrace Cain
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