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Author Topic: OS .35AX  (Read 2546 times)

Online Dan McEntee

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OS .35AX
« on: June 06, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »
   I have been curious about this engine ever since I first saw them hit the market, probably well over a year ago. My first thought was that after discontinuing the LA.40 and .46, why come out with a higher end ball bearing .35? I don't think it has any basis in any helicopter version as far as I know. I have emailed with Randy Smith a time or two about them when I first saw that he offered a version set up for C/L stunt, but had really never seen one. The local hobby shop has pretty much stopped carrying any kind of I/C engine because they just do not sell any of any kind. I had seen one come up on eBay only a time or two and they sold quickly.  It just seemed really unusual in that they were in such short supply.
   I ran across one on eBay again at what seemed like a good deal and picked it up. When it got to me, I checked it out and on first impression, the designers at OS added a lot of modern styling to it and to it's accompanying muffler. Lots of cooling fins, squarish shaped cylinder, crank case and muffler. In looking for and collecting OS.32's they evolved into the same type of styling with the .32SX and can't say I'm a big fan of it. That translates into being heavy. I compared weight to an OS.32 and it's a bit over 1 ounce heavier due to what looks like bigger bearings and over all bigger cases, but the mounting dimensions are the same as the .32. I decided to break it in and then try it out on my Primary Force that I have been running a .32 in for several years. The mounts are the same, but the case is deeper so I had to shim out the mounts with some 1/8" aluminum, and with a tongue muffler, I was able to leave off the nose weight I had in it to balance correctly.
   I contacted Jim Lee for a venturi for it, and decided to go for .260" throat and a standard OS needle valve. I broke it in on a test stand as per the instructions with a   9-4 prop and after a few 2 ounce tank fulls, it started to start and handle easily. I made a few more runs with a 10-4 just to see how that went and all was OK. I bolted it to the P-Force using the same tank as I have been flying it with and the APC 10-4. The first few flights were pretty erratic with the engine never really settling down. It didn't run that way on the test stand at all, so started to looking at the installation. At the same time, I have been working with a flying buddy who was having some run issues with a OS. LA46 on a large profile model and was having trouble getting consistent runs. It was one of those situation where we tried everything twice, even taking his engine off and trying it in another model where I was using a LA.46 and it ran fine. So the trouble must be in the model itself. While looking at my P-force a week ago, I realized that we were both having the same problem, and I was thinking that in both models, the tank had to mounted pretty close to the engine. His engine is pretty low time, but as I looked at the cylinder, it was starting to bake on some castor on just the very back of the cylinder. Just behind the cylinder at that portion of the tank is where the feed line exits the tank, but low on the face so it can clear the engine for better fuel line routing. The tank he is using is one I made that is a copy of the tank I use on my P-Force, and commercially available tank called a "snub nose" for just such situations, I guess. I just made his a bit longer for more fuel. On my P-Force, the back side of the .35AX is longer and is close to the tank also at about the same place. I came to the conclusion that even though they are both profiles, and everything is out in the breeze, the engines might not be cooling properly, or at least heating up the from of the tanks so that it changes the fuel viscosity as the run goes along. It doesn't have to boil the fuel, just get significantly warmer. I had remembered reading stuff Brett Buck had written here about fuel viscosity and that was in my thinking also.
    To address the problem, I had e quick and dirty heat shield/deflector for my P-Force out of soda can stock. A simple V shaped piece with long enough legs to go over and under the tank. I glued a bamboo skewer at the bend and poked a couple of holes in it to wire it to the engine at the center line of the cylinder. I figured the air goes through the fins, hits the shield and has to flow over and under the engine. I tried it out this past Thursday and the engine ran pretty sweet! nice steady needle where ever I put it. I had the APC 10-4 prop on it and it isn't quite enough for this older, oil soaked veteran so i went back to the Zinger Pro 11-4 that I had been running on the .32. The next flight went well and I just need to fine tune the tank position a bit ( don't know why but the .35 needs it just a bit lower than the .32) and I'll put a few more flights on this set up tomorrow hopefully to get some more experience with it before putting the .32 back in the P-Force.  We shut down for the afternoon to head to my house to make up a heat shield deflector for his model, and I hope that clears up the problems with his airplane.
      This whole long story was just to tell my limited experience with this new engine and to see if there is anyone else playing around with these at all. It still seems strange to me that OS would come out with this size engine at this point in time and maybe some one has more information about it. Jim Lee thought it was a helicopter engine, but the head isn't nearly as large as the .32 F and .32SX copter engines are. And OS surely doesn't appear to be flooding the market with them. I don't think it will be a world beater or anything like that but is another offering for the sport flyer market or someone looking for a power house ball bearing engine for a Classic or Super Seventies model, and the AeroTiger .36 isn't available any longer. Pop in here if anyone else has been flying them at all.
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
   
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 09:44:55 PM »
Dan,

I bought a pair of them to have a try. My reason was that I had a Vector 40 that was set up for the Evo .36, and after working with that engine a bit, I decided that it wasn't going to do what I needed. The reason for the OS .35AX in my situation is that it is the only bolt-in replacement for the Evo. I should qualify that statement:  the Evo has a canted plug, so I had to make a minor change to the cowling for the OS. I think I also shaved the cowling hole for the muffler as well, but very minor change.

I would agree that the OS appears to be a quality piece, but I must say that I have not worked the bugs out of my installation yet. It makes me wonder if the aircraft side of things is causing me trouble, and not so much the engine(s). I have tried to run in a rich 2-stroke using a range of propellers. I haven't found anything happy yet. Sometimes it settles in during the first quarter of the flight if the prop load is not too high, but by the middle of the flight it is straining and too lean, sagging on mild wingovers.

Last prop tried was a BY&O 11x4. Also tried 10x5, and custom 10.5x4.5. Probably some others, too.

I have run two different tanks with no apparent improvements. Both a plastic clunker set up uniflow and a standard metal wedge. If I recall correctly, always run on pressure. With the way the nose construction was completed (rebuilt ARF, not stock) the front of the tank is 2" behind the backplate. Since certain run characteristics match that of fuel draw issues, I have been using pressure. No fuel filter installed.

I have run the stock OS E-3080 Power Box muffler (with relocated pressure fitting), the OS muffler with the internal baffle removed, and the Evo tongue muffler. I think removing the baffle from the muffler made it the best of the three.

I initially tried the setup last summer with air temps over 100F, which of course meant that on the asphalt it was even hotter. I also tried it without the cowling and noticed no improvement, although that definitely changed the trim of the plane. I also opened up the inlet just on general principles. The outlet is quite large, so no changes were made there. So I put it away until the weather cooled off and got to it again this past winter with the temps probably in the low 60's (and cowling installed) with no obvious improvement.

I think I have run both 7 and 10% nitro mixes, 18% oil all synthetic (Klotz Original Techniplate), if I remember right. I may have tried a 50/50 oil mix but don't recall.  No magic yet.

I ran a series of different venturis, starting with the two smaller Evo parts and using an OS NVA. My last go at it in February(?) I tried out a new venturi I made up from Delrin. I'd have to go check the diameter of that one. I think I went smaller?

I think my issue is fuel delivery but still wonder about overloading the engine. Not sure how much time these take to settle in. On the ground, level, the thing runs fine in the plane. I guess I'll have to repeat the ground run and observe what happens at different attitudes. The current setup probably won't like it.

I'll go check my notes and get the venturi dimensions. After a full nose job, the plane is pretty solid, so it's worth some more work to get an engine setup that works. Keep us posted on your progress. Maybe you'll share some detail that works on my setup, too!

My experiences so far,

Dave

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 10:19:58 PM »
   Hi Dave;
     I had Jim Lee make me a venturi like I he sells for the OS .32 which attaches with screws just like the carb does. Venturi throat is .260" and I am using a standard OS needle valve, SIG Champion 10%, and moved up to a Zinger Pro 11-4 that I used on the OS.32. I figured that mounting the engine in an airplane with a known good working tank/fuel system might eliminate some guess work. The set up works great for the OS.32, but when I started to get such funny runs on the airplane after such a good break in session I started looking for something else on the airplane, and came up with the tank heating/engine cooling issue. I made the little heat shield/deflector for it and things settled down right away. I didn't get to put more flights on it last time due to other commitments but hope to fly tomorrow before it gets hot. This potential tank heating issue makes me wonder if I have dealt with this before and just didn't recognize it. I'm talking about 3/4" to an inch away from the back of the cylinder. The .32 is smaller enough that it is further away by about 1/4" and maybe that's enough, because I have not had this problem with that engine being fed from the same tank in the same location. The P-Force has a pretty short nose, and that is part of the problem. As soon as I am satisfied I am going to drop the .32 back into it and save the .35 for something else.
     I used a OS needle valve because I had a lot of them. In dealing with this model and the problems my buddy has had with a similar set up, we  got to looking at needles and found that we both has needles that were flat on the end with not much taper, al,most like an old Fox.35 needle! I checked the needles up in a drill and worked them down to a finer point and that helps quite a bit, so if you are using OS needles, you may want to check them out. All of mine had a big flat end that was big enough to see grind marks on it without my reading glasses on! That's not good! I have another venturi that is .280" and another that is .277" and may try those with a Super Tiger needle if I think I need it. I'll know some more if I get to fly it tomorrow. I want to try some other 11-4 props also.
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 10:21:07 PM »
More info:

I ran the Evo .225" venturi with .137" spraybar.

I think I ran the Evo .234" venturi next.

I currently have a .261" venturi, with the same OS NVA.

Jim Lee was selling/recommending a .153" venturi for the Evo .36. This used peripheral feed, so the diameter was unobstructed. That equates to about 63% of the stock, small diameter Evo setup with its projecting spigot. A .261" diameter venturi with the OS NVA has this same choke area.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2020, 01:34:39 PM »
More info:

I ran the Evo .225" venturi with .137" spraybar.

I think I ran the Evo .234" venturi next.

I currently have a .261" venturi, with the same OS NVA.

Jim Lee was selling/recommending a .153" venturi for the Evo .36. This used peripheral feed, so the diameter was unobstructed. That equates to about 63% of the stock, small diameter Evo setup with its projecting spigot. A .261" diameter venturi with the OS NVA has this same choke area.

  Those seem about right for conventional stunt fuel. I would note (as in the other thread), that the stock parts appear fine, if you use the specified fuel, that is, Cool Power. It also means that you can get, potentially, drastically more power, using thinner fuel, since you can safely use much larger venturis.

    Brett

Offline Brad LaPointe

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2020, 03:13:28 PM »
The Thunder Tiger.36 is a drop in replacement for the Evo .36 . I have one in a Vector and another in a Fancherized Twister . The 11x4.5 prop that Randy sells works very well on this engine . 10% nitro 11/11 Rich’s Brew fuel makes it very happy .

Brad

Offline Mike Greb

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 04:21:36 PM »
I have os 35ax on a Bischoff zero. I had to use a 9x3 prop go get it slow enough for the Air to Air combat event.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:53:08 PM by Mike Greb »

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2020, 01:34:59 AM »
Interesting that the Tundra-Tiger is a drop-in fit for the Evo .36. I've got one of those on a carrier ship. Running 10/10/10 fuel most of the time. It goes fine (when I get the mixture right. Last time out was a little off....)

On the other hand, with regard to the Aerotigre, and bolting one of them in, I only wish I had one....

Mr. Greb:  a 9x3? Are you serious?  That is seriously underpropped which probably means yur turnin' a bazzilion rpm, right?  What size venturi are you running? Any fuel draw issues? On pressure? Stock mufflicator? Unicorn tank?

I have some of the magic plastic props in the 11x4.5 size. I'll give that a go next time out.

Might also make up a smaller Vespucci to test as well. Hard to get to the field so best to take a few combo's ready to installate. And be ready to plug-n-prang....

I probably should mention that to get the tank centerline aligned with the spraybar, I put the NVA thru the venturi, not thru the carb attach screw holes. That's the way the original Evo was set up for this plane.

McDivot

Offline Mike Greb

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 07:47:24 PM »
I was probably running The 35ax with a .280 venturi, st needle valve and a hays 3 oz tank  The rules limited the airspeed to 7.4 sec for two laps.   It was way to fast on a 9x6 so I went down to a 9x3 to slow it down, and it then went almost exactly the speed limit

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 01:10:21 AM »
Mike,

That would have given you around .0179 sq. in. of choke area, which is just a tiny bit less than what I'm running. You didn't mention any fuel draw issues, but you might have beat that due to the higher pumping action from the increased rpm. Hmmm.

Dave

Offline Mike Greb

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2020, 11:52:34 AM »
Dave,

I checked the veturi on my osax35 and it is .28 with a nelson nv going through the  carb mounting holes that were drilled out to fit the nv.  I use hays 3 and 4 oz tanks mounted on their side with the vent on the cl of the engine .  I have to set it a little rich to get a good setting in the air.  Other motors that use drawbars I move the needle valve higher, kind of like a fox mk4. Those motors the needle valve setting in the air is pretty much where you set it on the ground.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2020, 01:52:54 PM »
Mike,

That would have given you around .0179 sq. in. of choke area, which is just a tiny bit less than what I'm running. You didn't mention any fuel draw issues, but you might have beat that due to the higher pumping action from the increased rpm. Hmmm.

Dave

  I would expect that to be pretty good even for relatively thick fuel and low RPM. It's slightly smaller than the stock 20FP venturi/spraybar, and almost twice the displacement.

   Brett
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 10:57:58 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2020, 02:31:34 AM »
Thanks for the confirmation, Mike.

On my Bignose Vector (OPP), the engine is inverted so I expect the tankage to differ from your setup. But it shud-otta-go if I get things sorted. It doesn't feel tight, but maybe a bit more run time will get it to settle in. With the limited venturi, maybe I've got a bit too much prop still?

No real issues with motor weight on this combination. The plane turns fine--if the engine is turning fine.

Dave

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2020, 10:07:57 AM »
  I got a few more flights on mine yesterday. been really windy here recently so not much opportunity to get quality flying time. I noticed that on the OS.32 that I had in my P-Force had a .260" venturi in it with a Randy Smith needle, so made up another venturi just like it with a Super Tigre needle valve which is the same size I think as Randy's spray bars.  I had the best runs so far with this set up, and the engine needles so much better. I am really questioning the quality and usefulness of the last batch of needle valve assemblies that OS made for their .25, .35, 40, and .46 engines. The needles are very blunt, actually look like they are ground off flat, and not tapered very much. The holes where the fuel sprays down the venturi is much small also, down around the .030" I think but I would need to measure these more carefully. Once I get the current set up evaluated a bit more, I have another venturi with a OS NVA that I worked over a bit but opening up the hole and tapering the needle to a longer point and will swap out and see how that runs/
  The flights I got yesterday showed that the AX.35 will put out some power! The last flight I got I had the engine tached at 10,500 RPM with a Zinger Pro 11-4 prop. On the lines I have been flying this airplane on ( 62 ft handle to A/C center line) it was zipping right along at a 5.0 lap time in a four stroke! It went through 4 1/2 ounces of SIG Champion fuel (10% nitro, 20% total oil) in enough time to maybe get the whole pattern in. The wind came up and was going through some trees next to the circle so I didn't get to work on this after the flight. Next time out I may try a 10-4 and spin it up some more to stretch out the run, or pick another airplane for the engine to continue the testing on. The P-Force is a bit smallish and mine is getting heavy with age, and I think this engine is a bit much for this airframe. I have a Cardinal profile that may be a good candidate for it. I am still a bit surprised that you don't see this for sale more. It looks like it may be a good replacement for any of the other .35/.36 ball bearing engines and will probably handle largish model with ease. To Be continued.........
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 03:02:25 PM »
Yesterday I was looking for history and shaft thread information on OS engines (that Max I, II & III topic) and noticed that the AX .35 has been discontinued. Like everything else in the way of stunt engines, if you find one you like a lot, you'd better stock up on them. I'm pretty well stocked on .46LA's and Magnum XLS .36's.  y1 Steve

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Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: OS .35AX
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2020, 05:11:31 AM »
Yesterday I was looking for history and shaft thread information on OS engines (that Max I, II & III topic) and noticed that the AX .35 has been discontinued. Like everything else in the way of stunt engines, if you find one you like a lot, you'd better stock up on them. I'm pretty well stocked on .46LA's and Magnum XLS .36's.  y1 Steve
Hello I think only the BE version of the 35AX is discontinued (Bio Ethanol) as the BE version of the 55ax is shown as discontinued too.
The OS Japan web site still shows the 35AX as well see:
https://www.os-engines.co.jp/english/line_up/engine/air/aircraft/airindex.htm

Here in New Zealand you would think every OS engine has been discontinued other then the 46AX which is the only OS engine now stocked here.

Regards Gerald


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