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Author Topic: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run  (Read 1199 times)

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« on: September 14, 2012, 06:05:09 PM »
It has been a while...say 20 years or so since I flew control line. 

My neighbor is trying to get me into RC, and I broke one plane already...

I have some models from when I was younger.  I learned today that my Cox 049 engines have the reed glued in place, and I now have one model running extra strong.  I also learned on that engine that the oils in the fuel congeal and can form a plug in the fuel nipple.  I ended up using a hat pin to push the plug out after removing the needle from the valve, and the fuel line.  Two more Cox 049 engines left to clean up...

Now, I have an Enya 09, similar vintage say 1975-1985.  Fuel feeds to the engine just fine.  Glow plug heats up very quickly.  I can get it to bark at me but not to run. I am starting with a needle setting of 2 turns out.  When I choke the carb it will draw fuel very readily.  When I get it to bark it draws fuel, but does not stay running. 

I am hand proping.  I usually use bare fingers, but also use a chicken stick.  I don not have an electric starter, but my neighbor does.  I am using old fuel (old enough to go drinking, 21 years old) that runs fine through the OS40 from the trashed RC plane, as well as through the 049, so I have to believe it is good.  The can says 5% nitro Fox fuel, but I am told by my parents that it is refilled with higher nitro fuel. 

I need suggestions on where to go from here.  I can get some fuel and the electric starter from my neighbor, but he is working straight through to next weekend.

Phil

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2012, 06:16:49 PM »
There's probably dried castor oil in the needle valve assembly of your Enya.  But you should be able to back the needle valve out even more and see the thing run OK.

If it won't seem to hold a setting, particularly if it seems to work fine then suddenly go lean or rich, try taking the needle out altogether and backwashing it with fuel, then reassembling and trying it again.

If the RC engine is an LA 40 it should work pretty well for CL; just wire the throttle open and have fun.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Martin Quartim

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2012, 07:31:35 PM »
Is this a new Enya 09 that needs break in ?

These is an iron piston engine and  Enya makes engines with very tight piston/liner that require some work to get it to run for the first time, but once they are broken in they will suprise you with its power and easy to use.

The Enya 09 has a lot of torque, mine works best with an 8x4 prop.

Martin


 
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

https://www.youtube.com/user/martinSOLO

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2012, 08:01:42 PM »
This engine has been run for many hours of flight time...but not in the last 20 years.

I'll take apart the needle assembly and see, but I think I got it cleaned out the first time.  I only took the needle out and the hose off so I could pass a hat pin thought.  No debris came out the first time.  I also hooked the fuel syringe I am using to the carb and pushed fuel forcibly through, which made a fountain of fuel.

I am hesitant to take the entire needle assembly OFF the engine since I have never done this before.

I have tried changing the needle setting both rich and lean, from less than 1 full turn open up thought getting to the end of the spring lock on the needle (silly open, about 10 turns)

Just checking, this engine has a passage in the crankshaft and no reed, correct?

Phil

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 09:52:53 PM »
If there's a reed-valve Enya, it's a collector's item.

You should be able to see the crankshaft through the venturi, and see the timing hole go past.  It should start to open as or sometime before the piston starts going up, and close as or a bit after the piston starts going down again.

Are you saying that you had the needle valve all the way out and the engine did not run?  Given that it draws fuel when you choke it, if you can't open the needle valve enough for it to run then either your fuel needs renewing or the hole in the spraybar is plugged.  Given that your fuel works in other engines and this one doesn't seem to want to go at all, I'm betting that your spraybar hole is clogged.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 12:28:28 AM »
This could easily be a glowplug problem, esp. if you are taking the battery off too quickly (or it's falling off).  If you're using a Fox glowplug, that would be even more likely to be the problem. I've seen them do some weird stuff, and be cured by a change in brand.

I suspect that an Enya .09 would need a short reach glowplug, and it should be a "hot" heat range one. Just finding a short reach glowplug may not be all that easy, but I would be willing to shim a long reach with some surplus glowplug gaskets. If the plug sticks down into the combustion chamber a bit will be ok (barring piston contact), but if the plug is recessed into the head, it probably won't work well. Which brings to mind, that if the Enya .09 requires a long reach plug, maybe it has a short in it, and that will do about what you describe. 

Welcome back! CL is way more fun than R/C. I flew CL, FF & R/C until I graduated HS, then dropped R/C.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2012, 07:27:59 AM »
Thanks for the welcome.  I need to figure out a no-wheels 1/2a stooge too.  I don't think my wife will launch for me...

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2012, 08:52:45 AM »
IT LIVES!

I removed the needle and wiped it with a paper towel, even though it was clean.  It didn't look different after wiping.  I took my pin and passed it in from both sides gently wiping the inside of the spray bar with the pin.  The pin came out clean too.  I then took my syringe (it is really a 1 oz "meat injector") and covered the needle hole with my finger and as forcefully as possible pushed 1 oz of fuel through the spray bar from the fuel line side.  Made a small mess on the drive.  I pumped air in and out several times.  I then refilled the syringe and pushed 1 oz of fuel through with the needle out and the needle hole open.  I then pushed air in and out several times. 

Filled the tank, primed through the exhaust, flipped it over choked a few time, flipped it about a dozen times, hooked the battery up and pulled it till it bumped, 3 flips and it was running...sorta.  3 more times of this and it stayed running till the tank ran out.  Refilled and ran a second tank out after a couple minute cool down!

Thank you for the advice Tim.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 10:59:31 AM »
3 CL airplanes, 3 working engines on them.  Just ran the other Cox 049...in reverse for 2 tanks before I could get it to start forward.

The "spare" Cox 049 has a bent up needle that I can't get to operate smooth enough.  Guess I will have to order parts from the new Cox engines.
http://coxengines.ca/

Now to set up a stooge or get my neighbor or wife to help. (or all of the above)

Phil

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 11:37:56 AM »
Thanks for the welcome.  I need to figure out a no-wheels 1/2a stooge too.  I don't think my wife will launch for me...

If you have a plane that pulls hard enough try a "sleeve launch".  This guy's system is way too complex for 1/2-A -- I use a folded-over piece of cardboard held to a chair with a vice-grip.  All you need is a sleeve that the wing fits into well enough that it doesn't rattle out by itself.  Then anchor the sleeve to the ground or something heavy enough that the whole thing doesn't tip over when you pull the plane out.

Maybe someone is reading this who knows of a collection of shots?  Or maybe you could post a request for pictures of people's systems.

The one requirement is that the plane reach flying speed before it hits the ground.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 04:14:50 PM »
If you have a plane that pulls hard enough try a "sleeve launch".  This guy's system is way too complex for 1/2-A -- I use a folded-over piece of cardboard held to a chair with a vice-grip.  All you need is a sleeve that the wing fits into well enough that it doesn't rattle out by itself.  Then anchor the sleeve to the ground or something heavy enough that the whole thing doesn't tip over when you pull the plane out.

Maybe someone is reading this who knows of a collection of shots?  Or maybe you could post a request for pictures of people's systems.

The one requirement is that the plane reach flying speed before it hits the ground.

I used a towel a piece of plywood, some foam because I was flying a "little wizard" (I set it so the foam could slide out with the wing), needed to brick up one end so I was starting "up" and 1/3 tries I got a flight in.  3 good flights, but the plane is not as responsive as I remember...and more beaten up that I remember.  I think I need a new elevator.  The engine appears to be the most tame variety Cox made, and is probably off a plastic RTF originally.  (My "spare" is the same engine)

Tried my "lil jumping bean" with a more open ported Cox engine, and made the mistake of leaving the plywood blocked up...straight into a wing over, looped into the ground and a broken motor mount...looks like an easy fix at least, but not today.

I don't remember getting this dizzy 20 years ago either.  I also remember being able to do a lot more stunts with the "little wizard" than a wing over.  Probably related.

I chickened out about flying the 09 on 30 ft lines...

Phil

Offline Timothy Payne

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Re: Been 20 years..."Old" engines and making them run
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 02:21:05 PM »
Just rebuilt the topend on my FOX36X Combat. This motor had a few issues when I first acquired it; apart from being seized and well gummed up!

I made a schoolboy error by not soaking it for long enough, and thought it would be a good idea to wrench the liner out with a set of molegrips. Do not try this! This stupid mistake only resulted in twisting the conrod and damaging the top spacer, (underneath the liner flange. (If your motors well stuck, leave it sumerged for up to a week if possible in paraffin (you guys will no doubt call it kerosene).

Anyway back to the head, I discovered as a result of my inexperience and impatience the cylinder head was seating level as it should.
This was causing a minor leak and the engine certainly seemed down on power.
So I've reshaped the spacer using a needle file then I made a pair of head gaskets from a piece of copper sheet (2 thou).
Put these one either side of the original gasket to make a sandwich, then refitted the liner and put the whole thing back together (with the new gaskets). This seems to have cured the problem, by the way an intriguing fact with these motors is they contain circlips! - I had to make one of those as well!!!!


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